Findmorgan.com
Merriam-Webster’s online dictionary defines dissention as:
partisan and contentious quarreling
http://east.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dissension
Unfortunately, that appears to be what the findmorgan.com website has deteriorated into. Quite sad. I saw the handwriting on the wall regarding the website months ago and had stopped visiting. Last week a friend had brought a recent turn of unpleasant events to my attention, so I tried to look at the forum’s recent postings:
Looks like continual speculation regarding the disappearance and resulting murder of Morgan Harrington has resulted in some very harsh feelings towards the forum’s moderators. From what I understand the website had become some sort of unrealistic shrine for Morgan, and postings which portrayed her activities prior to the disappearance in a negative light were censored and removed from public view. That certainly doesnt justify frustrated individuals making threats against the moderators.
I suspect that the gossip mongering website Blinkoncrime contributed working accusations into a frenzy, but I had moved on and am no longer up to date regarding the situation. I do remember that every couple weeks someone else was on Blink’s “hinky meter.”
http://thepocomokepubliceye.blogspot.com/2009/12/shannon-moser-stoy-aka-blink-b-is-at-it.html
Additionally alot of valuable time has passed since Morgan’s murder and I hold out little hope it will be solved in the near future. It was a mistake for the Harringtons not to bring a PI into the mix. Law enforcement can only dedicate so many resources to solving one girl’s murder, they can’t make it their exclusive focus. Additionally, it’s unlikely those with worthwhile information are “squeaky clean” and therefore have reluctance to speak with police. That doesn’t mean that murder sits well with them however, and they may of spoken confidentially with someone they viewed as non-threatening.
(540)922-3896: The Bulldog 
Findmorgan.com was a very strange and morbid mixture of internet sleuthing, graphic speculation, psychic voo-doo and channelling, blended with over the top self-complimenting on how much love and support the members show the Harrington’s with each new gruesome scenario posted hypothesizing on how their daughter may have been raped, murdered, and dumped in a field.
The kind of entertainment only available on the internet I suppose.
The recent “threats” on the moderators was merely this, one of the site admins has a problem feeding trolls on other forums, and lost his head in a thread on one of “The Hook” article discussions, and after several bickering posts back and forth this FM admin threatened the troll by stating he had his email and IP address.
Swallowing the trolls bait hook, line, and sinker, this admin was then publically questioned on the ethics of a site administrator tracking and publically threatening to release such information, as well as doing this kind of activity during “his workday” using his employer’s computors and servers, and apparently on company time.
The troll “threatened” this admin by suggesting his employer be contacted to see if they approve of such activities.
Ironically, the sleuths on findmorgan missed this, and instead got the idea that their admin received “death threats” and spread that rumor around. Finally Dr. Harrington cleared that one up on “The Hook” though.
Not long after this, this admin quickly decided to “step down,” and within the weak, findmorgan website is shut down – but only temporary I understand.
Nothing like this kind of melodrama to keep the case interesting I suppose.
Wheeler,
Well written and insightful comment. I’ve heard the website referred to as shrinemorgan.com in a posting recently. It’s likely because the poster felt sentiments regarding the site simliar that seem to echo your own description.
Hi Bulldog, thanks for this blog. Perhaps calmer heads will prevail here. What I don’t understand is this: On the FM forum site, w/in the notice of being closed for awhile, Doc H says his admin’s-plural- were threatened, but from what I read on The Hook’s comment was the admin in question, rhymes with penny, was seemingly threatening-so to speak, a troll, by stating he had his (the troll’s) IP address. So in reality who threatened whom? Why would “Penny” state he had someone’s IP address in the first place?
There’s more to say, but I wish someone could clue me in if they would. Thanks.
Olivia, I can’t formulate an educated opinion in regards to what happened because I’m “not up to speed” regarding the situation. I did briefly skim over the hook’s reader comments yesterday, and I noticed that a number of them had been “deleted by moderator.” The truth is that while I do feel that Morgan fell victim to a terrible crime, I also have come to question why she has so strongly captured the hearts of the general public. Two other Virginia tech student’s were ruthlessly murdered in the national forest not terribly far from me, yet you don’t hear much about that tragedy… Without elaborating in much further detail other then to say that as a local private investigator I have access to resources and contacts within Virginia Tech and the surrounding community beyond the norm, I will say more of my personal sympathy lies in their direction.
First, in hindsight and to be fair, maybe I should not have called that individual, “SJ”, a “troll” in my original post, since it is probably true that the FM admin “K”, yes who ryhmes with “Penny,” holds maybe just as much blame for the shenanigans.
Olivia,
My opinion is that Dr. Harrington was most likely referring to the plural threats because SJ apparently had at some time exchanged heated private emails with a female mod at FM which, according to what I saw on the forums, degenerated into him telling her to “eff-off” and mind her own business. This lead to the individual initially being banned from FM and why the bad blood sort of spilled over into other forums even to this day.
Bulldog,
I did see that most of the comments were deleted on the Hook’s website. From memory, as I followed that thread as it was playing out, that the original comments deleted were Ks answer to “Lexington’s” post about some of K’s personal info (where he worked, that he didn’t get paid to admin FM, etc.), and the other deleted posts were when SJ posted several questions to K concerning if his IP address and email were stored on servers and computers at K’s workplace, and if his supervisor etc. knew and approved of K. using company time and resources to conduct his FM business, and things simply went downhill from there.
Regarding the “shrinemorgan” comments, well, I guess I can see where that sentiment is rooted. I know from experience that certain details of what happened earlier on 10/17/09 that simply were not welcome to be discussed on that website.
Of course I respect that Morgan’s parents are grieving, and in my opinion I try to give them a wide latitude even though I would not agree with many things that I believe restrict finding the truth versus protecting the memory of their daughter, but that is ultimately their business and their decision.
I have spoken to several individuals who attend JMU who happen to know a couple of the people that were with Morgan that night. I’d be interested to know if you’ve heard some of the same things that I have.
Wheeler,
Initially (and at the very beginning) I was very involved with the “find morgan” effort, and I daresay contributed quite a bit not only to the discussions that were transpiring on the forum but also followed up personally on very important leads. I also was walking a fine line, as I personally spoke with some witnesses who felt they had observed Morgan, including what has since become known as “the sighting on the lawn.” I want to be somewhat careful here, but I will say that for whatever reason there were several sightings that LE did not follow up on in what I considered a timely fashion. As a legitimately licensed private investigator I decided to follow up on those leads myself and was legally able to do so.
Following that situation, and in particular after pursuing “the lawn” sighting, I became convinced that a visit to Charlottesville was in order. (Apparently since that time, my instincts were proven correct. Her body was accidentally located on a remote farm not far from Charlottesville. ) I then requested that Dr. Harrington bring me into the investigation in an offical capacity, not particularly to make money off of the Harringtons… but because having the Harringtons as a client would further legitimatize my efforts. I also didn’t relish the idea of absorbing all the travel expenses, lodging and so forth simply because I wanted to assist. The investigation was very politically charged even at that time, and LE wouldnt exactly appreciate a PI meddling around on their criminal investigation. If I did in fact manage to find something out that they did not (and indeed, at that point I already had), they would wind up with egg on their face.
For whatever reason the Harringtons never contacted me to explore the option of my official involvement although several individuals encouraged them to. Instead they chose to hire a publicist. Additionally, several members on the findmorgan.com website began to label me as an ambulance chaser, and I recieved several harrassing emails and phone calls to that effect. I dont remember if any of them were in a threatening capacity. If they were, I didn’t pay them much regard as I don’t intimidate easily.
In any event, I became disgusted with and washed my hands of the whole affair. I felt that the findmorgan.com/forum was painting Morgan in an unrealistic light. That doesn’t lessen the tragedy, but as another poster had put it she was being placed on a quite high and unrealistic pedestal. Additionally, LE and the Harringtons were not releasing what I considered relevant and honest information to what had become her fan club.
I have had conversations with individuals that knew Morgan Harrington, but I’m not comfortable or interested in discussing the content of those conversations. I would like the criminal(s) involved to be caught and prosecuted, but unlike “Blink” I’m not going to create a hinky meter, and start looking for people to label as likely suspects. I’m no longer involved or abreast of the happenings of the MH investigation. In retrospect, I invested too much personal time trying to assist in the matter as I wasn’t being compensated or even truly appreciated for my efforts. I do realize and respect that the Harringtons have suffered an immense loss, and don’t desire to comment further on the topic.
Hi Bulldog and Wheeler, thanks for enlightening me somewhat into the machinations of this case and blog over at the Hook.
Bulldog, since you do not want to comment further on the Harrington case I will defer to that and keep my mouth (fingers) shut. However, I’ll be checking back in and thanks for the info you and Wheeler provided.
Okay, I’m checking back already Bulldog 🙂 and need to clarify: in regards to your last sentence, exactly who doesn’t desire to comment further? I read this as you and later wondered if it was the Harringtons that no longer wish to comment further.
I can really overthink things btw. LOL. Would you mind letting me know at your convenience? Thanks.
Oh, one other thing if you or Wheeler know: why would Kenny the Penny even feel the need to tell SJ’s that he had his IP number? I am a Luddite in the PC realm and do not understand the significance of this. Would it be considered somewhat of a threat for a moderator of a forum to say this publicly? Was he power tripping or something? Thanks if you know………
Overthinking Olivia
Olivia,
It’s I who doesnt wish to comment further. The Harringtons I believe like to keep the case in the limelight as they are hopeful it will assist them in their cause (solving the murder).
As far as the IP address goes. Each computer has a uniquely assigned IP address when it’s on the internet, and so the implied threat might be that the owner of that particular computer could be discovered. It is however more involved then that, and typically requires that a court order be served on the Internet provider. Frankly, the IP address in that particular instance wasn’t overly significant unless threats were indeed made against the moderator in question from that particular computer.
Bulldog, got it and many thanks!!! Okay overthinking again:
my impression was that the moderator, Kenny, was subtly threatening the poster-SJ, when he stated to SJ: I have your email and IP address in a heated post. To my knowledge there had been no threats from SJ to Kenny, but just a ridiculous semi heated back and forth. Kenny had SJ’s info from his position at FindMorgan and stated this at the Hook’s comment section.
Beating a dead horse—- I am sure it seems like this, but I am looking a some stuff that this moderator has been saying and have some concerns actually. So just wondering if this would be considered somewhat of a weird or strange tact in general?’
Not that big a deal. But Bulldog, that you don’t want to further comment, does that mean your posters cannot discuss Morgan et al.? I’m a bit unclear of what the parameters are. Again thanks. O.
No, I guess you can if you so choose… so long as people remain civil to each other. It seems to be a case that just won’t fall out of the public interest.
Hello: This is S Jones
Bull Dog has just about got it. Thank goodness late in the comments thoughts became more realist in this thread. First, I never use any-other name any where. Perhaps Bull Dog can relate to this: I received information from several people and all but 1 have been verified. There was a role playing game introduced by said female administrator. I was in the middle of vetting information and was sharing with Law Enforcement. This role playing game got so bad and was hurting the flow of information. Perhaps Bull Dog understands what this means.
So yes, that was fairly accurate. Penny or whatever for the purpose of this discussion had somehow concluded that dozens of post on “The Hook” were from me. He just could not fathom that many ,lets find his style less than desirable. By this time, I actually had made peace with Kenny in my mind. Others asked if he was getting paid. His answer was no. As with an another poster on Pink, went to:”The Hook” It was pointed out several months ago by that poster that she worked at UVA and had worked for 2 of the Local LE agencies. When others notice the time stamp and called her on this I believe in May, she responded. That wasn’t me that noticed , but did beg the question was she a paid PR spokeswoman for UVA. Now after months I simple noticed the time stamps from I believe over a dozen of Pennies post. I , me S Jones did ask if you are posting on “The Hook” and are at work, does not that mean your are getting paid? Now, for all I know he was home that day, or for all I know V-tech does sanction his work. It was no way a threat, it was question. Relative to the objectivity of his comments. All I know is it must have struck a cord. I did not bait him on that. Earlier on FM he had called me out, I simply said here I am. I did not bait him. I did not threaten him. To this day it reads that threats were made to Administrators. Well not to Penny for sure. When said female administrator months earlier sent me 5 or 6 e-mails or PM’s [ the tone was quite harsh] to me I responded [ words Morgan is alleged to have said to others on 10/17/09], it wast to point out that as Morgan did then nor with the role playing need her to help me to decide. I knew they were wrong, there was no threat, My statements were that the Administrators would realize that the Dr. is the one who owns that site. If this is a threat, well I do not how one could call it that. I was simply stating that you represent Dr Harrington and please be professional.
This is what happens when someone repeats things out of context, [not this thread]
Interesting thread. I will honor the level of discussion. I do not live under a bridge, I assure you. I see much in Bull Dogs statements, perhaps only Bull Dog truly understands my position. I do not ask for an endorsement. Just thanks for letting me defend myself. To this day how someone could ever type ” DEATH THREATS” and someone allow that to be printed would ever be allowed, ever.
S Jones
p.s I like penny, really
S. Jones,
I had stopped following the whole Morgan Harrington soap opera some time ago, untill a friend of mine had asked me if I was aware the findmorgan.com/forum was closed. I then poked around a bit and got myself somewhat up to speed. I’m aware that you and Kenny had some sort of arguement on the Hook, but I’m not privy to the details. I’m aware that claims were made regarding threats against Kenny, but I don’t know who the finger was being pointed at.
Your posting above reads as fairly well written and thought out to me, so I will approve it. I do to an extent understand your position based on what you’ve posted and take your remarks at face value. I all too well know how emotionally charged and rather unrealistic the findmorgan.com forums had become, so I can see the strong possibility that fingers were unjustifiably pointed in your direction. I am however not taking sides, and if a battle between yourself and Kenny took place I hope it is now over.
As for Virginia Tech, I have my own feelings regarding that establishment, but I will for a change refrain from verbalizing them. I will however in my next posting put a link to someone I respects own blog regarding Virginia Tech, and their reaction (or lack of it) to the April 16th matter. From what he writes, Tech also decided to bring a publicist into the aftermath. Kenny I believe posted somewhere that “Morgan is Virginia Tech” or something similiar implying that she embodies true Hokie spirit somehow. I would daresay he may be more on the mark then he intended in that posting. There is much to both the MH situation as well as Tech politics that the general public remains unaware of. In both situations, decision makers chose to bring publicists into the fray. There’s a whole slew of similiarities that I need not expand upon, leaving others to do their homework and reach their own conclusions.
Bulldog
Thank you, I believe your only statement that requires an answer. Is that I did send a communication to Kenny with full explanation and apology. I am quite certain he received it favorably. I hope that helps.
As for your comments, even you may be understating the PR portion.
Thanks again If some one poses a question to me, I will follow your lead. I will not answer unless you sanction that I should.
I would like to say thank you Wheeler and Olivia
S Jones,
It is good to see you able to share your side of the story.
Again I apologize for referring to you on the Hook thread as a “troll.” What I first wrote I was actually thinking only about “K’s” reactions to both the Hook threads and the Craigslist threads where this similar scenario got played out so many times already, someone would say something critical and then the whole FM admin team would swoop in as if on cue.
My comments above, as originally posted on NBC29 Topix thread (and quickly deleted by mods as is usual) were intended to let “K” and the others FM mods know they need not spend so much energy engaging any and every poster that may be critical and skeptical of their techniques. In this world we will never please everyone all the time!
Bulldog,
I look forward to reading more of your insight into what may be going on behind the scenes in this case. As I mentioned earlier, quite soon after MH initially went missing, and well before her remains were found, I spoke to several individuals connected to JMU and who know the individuals with MH that evening. I will only say that some folks were surprised when Dr. Harrington referred to his daughter in the past tense during a live interview less than two weeks after she went missing — and some folks were not so suprised. All that I can say is it seems some in that group had a reputation for dealing with some dangerous fringe elements.
Also, FindMorgan forums are back up again, for now at least.
Wheeler: You corrected yourself in later comments and I am grateful. There are many fine people on Find Morgan, I wish them well. I hope the Doctor finds the truth, no matter what is it is.
There is a fine line as to fact is fact and what is theory or hearsay. Once someone who has dealt with issues for over 35 years, has facts then he is morally obligate to report to the FBI or police. I assure that I have provided information in the last week. However as Bull Dog hopefully understands I do not provide theory and dilute the information. I would only like to state if someone fears the police, call the FBI. They deal with ransoms and kidnapping, they do protect witnesses. They do answer the phone, no need to leave private information on a voice mail. I have somehow been able to maintain contacts with many. It is those with information that have not contacted a compassionate outlet that this intended for.
Bull dog was surely a missed opportunity for the Harringtons, more than I can reveal here.
Thank you Wheeler
I am not familiar so much with NBC29 Topix. I believe you. I will take notice.
Hello All. Am really glad to hear more facts/ideas/opinions on many things going on. I really appreciate the exchange Bulldog is providing here. I would like to comment on my personal ideas on what occurred at The Hook w/SJones, b/c SJones has responded very openly here, and I am one of many who were left with not only questions about what went on but also feelings. Btw, hi SJones and thanks for your pov. Also I am in need of some feedback relative to FM re-opening and something I read there, as described below.
I read (above) that the FM site was open again, went there and read the TOS & forum guidelines and was struck upon reading #6 and 7. I ‘m not getting the full meaning/message and find them rather sweeping and vague, yet covertly direct and overtly indirect—-all in a ‘read btwn the lines’ sort of way. This is just the way it strikes me.
SJones, this is my recollection of what occurred at The Hook and also it’s the first time and place available to clarify what did occur impo. It has bugged me to no end to see you scapegoated-which I think you were at The Hook. Or made to be a straw man as it was never clear to me anyway, what transpired that related to FM taking a break. However I should say all of this was implied non directly by the powers that be and was conveyed by posts from others who stated that you were the cause. Maybe you had nothing to do with it at all but I’ve read plenty that would have me think otherwise. Personally I don’t believe you were the real cause. JMPO. To the best of my knowledge you’ve never had a way to address this from your perspective, even if you wanted to at or if it mattered to you at all. So here are my impressions of it in addition to my questions about the meaning of No. 6 and 7 in the TOS/forum guidelines at FM. Please don’t hesitate to correct me or add/subtract if Bulldog allows this to post . And TIA Bulldog if you do.
No. 6: What does ‘prolonged and hostile discussion of other posters from this and related forums’, and that this will result in ‘strong action’ mean? Can someone clarify this for me? Does this mean one cannot write anything about or concerning posters? It seems to say so. What is ‘prolonged’, for that matter? What is ‘hostile’? So much is subjective and open to interpretation in the written word/online. [Is this even a threat?] Ex: Penny, who has made himself available on other forums, shared quite a bit about himself, and even got into a heated exchange with S. Jones and then Penny made a reference to having S. Jone’s IP addie and inside knowledge of alleged ‘rude’ PM’s supposedly sent by SJones. Other people had issues with this if I remember right. So does this mean if one reads something a FM or FB poster says, we cannot comment on this? Like I’m doing here? I have personally seen several FM posters, and even mods, say that other people who’ve held differing opinions were “haters, cold and mean, ” etc….on various forums. Certainly ugly things have been said about you SJones, also in a ‘prolonged’ and hostile’ manner and by a variety of posters. Strange that SJones got called out for asking some questions but no one questioned Penny’s logic or rationale when he said he had priviledged info on SJones relative to that exchange.
Then, No. 7 (not quoting this, just paraphrasing): posting personal info on anyone at FM or other forums without permission with result in strong action. ????? Excuse me, didn’t Penny share personal info on SJones when he said he had his IP addie and info relative to the PM’s, and on another forum? People/posters stick Gil’s weekly blogs anywhere they can regularly. I don’t know what this means and it seems unclear to me. And I sure as he&& am not emailing anyone at FM to ask. Penny said himself he worked at VT, so does that mean I have to get his permission to post this anywhere? I don’t mean to be obtuse you guys, but some people to me appear pretty extreme at times and also seem to want to be treated with kid gloves. JMPO and that is all. Blink gets slammed, quoted and misquoted everywhere, is it violating her? Looks like people are going to be monitored any and everywhere beyond the FM venue. My brother is a trial lawyer, would ask him but he’s overseas for a few months….
Just want to say thank you to SJones for sharing your side of The Hook story. Personally I never understood what the deal was over at FM. Supposedly it closed down due to threats but these threats were never elaborated upon. What was obvious to me was that some posters seemed to indite SJones for this. There were clear and direct posts at The Hook, and others actually, that accused him of this. That didn’t really sit right with me frankly, but I was just witnessing all of this erratically and from a distance. Just now went back to The Hook to reread and so much has been deleted now it is hard to connect the dots.
From what I remember (and correct me please SJones) of all that, was a progressively heated exchange btwn Penny and SJones, but not any big deal, just one of those things you see occasionally and it later got resolved I think. Then towards the angry end of the exchange, Penny said he had SJones personal info re: IP and email addies. [As an aside and to make a point, could that have conceivably be viewed as a threat?/however not saying it is or was.] He also I think went into why SJones got kicked off FM and had used some foul language with another mod there. That impo was no ones business and was taking something confidential (or so one would hope anyway) and outing SJones unfairly. Cause Penny (as mod) had the upper hand and direct evidence so nothing SJones could say at that point would have mattered—at least the way I saw it. So much is open to interpretation anywhere much less online. So later at some point another poster asked if anyone knew what Penny did for a living and did he get paid for being the top mod at FM/something to this effect. I thought it was asked frankly b/c the poster might have been wondering if Penny in fact, was a moderator, why was he going there and getting into flaming wars, throwing out someone’s personal info and a bit of name calling, ie: Sherlock, that sort of thing, no big deal but silly. Like was Penny a professional mod or an unexperienced volunteer? Doesn’t matter either way, but still grounds for a question I would think. I wasn’t getting anything like threats at all and Penny later answered and apologized, all in a very nice way, however, now that’s been deleted. Then SJones jumped in with his questions.
The reality and this probably isn’t popular, but to me, SJones had every right to ask questions, because what is there to hide? Why can’t someone ask whatever they want, it doesn’t mean anyone has to answer the question? What is the big deal to ask if Penny gets paid? Truthfully as SJones said, if he did this stuff at VT, then he was being paid to a degree. If some of what I read over at the Hook could have been viewed as threats, then I’m living in a parallel universe. When did asking some questions seeking info = his job being threatened? I thought Penny was a young inexperienced guy until he answered some of the questions….later a stupid rumor of some death threat got out—-believe it started at BOC . So much unnecessary drama really. Penny strikes me from the very little I know, as a regular nice guy, however I have seen him give as good as he gets, and can be pretty reactionary at times. Hence the irony of parts of Nos: 6 and 7.
Question to SJones: just saw over at The Hook your post, asking Penny those questions have been deleted. Would you happen to know why, b/c they were up for awhile if I recall correctly?
Sorry about going on so long, started this and got interrupted for a few hours and came back to it and it’s too late to seriously edit……..so….anyway to close, I really would appreciate it if someone would be kind enough to clarify. This entire post is probably a violation of rules 6 and 7, not that I am trying to irritate, I’m just wanting to be clear and see if anyone else is as confused as I am.
Okay that and to SJones, you know SJones, you say you wrote an apology and you have apologized on different forums as well which is admirable if you indeed think you were in the wrong. But I am curious, has anyone apologized to you? And just what exactly was your crime? I am at a loss to think of what you allegedly did that was so wrong, or wrong enough to incite so many. I think personally you were/are owed one from what all I’ve witnessed. And it may well be that you did receive one so if you did I would commend those that did.
To Anyone from FM/etc….that would happen to read this and take this as something it is not:
ALL of this is just my own very personal opinions and thoughts on the matters at hand. I am not trying to inflame anyone as this is simply my viewpoint on what went down at The Hook that involves posters and info relevant to this thread. I also am simply seeking more of a collective understanding/viewpoint from peers/like minded posters to what is confusing/ambiguous to me in relation to the forum rules at FM. Those rules ‘read’ somewhat intimidating to me so I am attempting to enlighten myself so that I can be respectful to what it is the administration at FM is asking of the general public. If anyone is an attorney please give us your point of view as well if you would be so kind to share. The more info the better.
Thanks All.
Beauregard & Co.
You know, I’ve been on the Internet a long time… in fact I pre-date it going mainstream. I go back to the days of what was referred to as bulletin board systems, and following that fidonet. So in short I’ve been around a while, and I’ve interacted with people a long time through this medium.
Over the years I’ve come to realize that cyberspace correspondence has alot of advantages, but it also has disadvantages. For one thing, people have a certain level of at least percieved protection when they voice their opinions from behind a keyboard. They have a certain level of anonymity, as a result they tend to express their opinions a little bit stronger then they might face to face.
Additionally, I think that sometimes things people write on Internet message bases come across a little harsher then the poster intended. When you write something, your reader has nothing to go on other then the written word… there is no body language or vocal tones to go with the message. Sure, we can do things such as use all caps and explantation points when we really want to emphasize a message but it’s hard to do the reverse in writing… to soften a tone.
As a result of the two inherent character traits present through forum interaction, sometimes tempers can flair. In addition, at times it becomes hard not to take advantage of that perceived safety and take a stab at someone when that person has purposely or accidentially managed to push your buttons.
Now in regards to the Morgan Harrington forum, we already had an emotionally charged undertone due to the nature of the topic. Once interaction got underway between the posters I think perhaps it was even more likely for them to attempt to drive their point across firmly, and to become frustrated with other peoples point of view…. ie: it was really easy to become emotionally charged during the course of interaction.
I found that the Morgan Harrington postings were heading a bit… ok perhaps more then a bit in a sappy direction. References to Morgan along the lines of “our sweet shining girl”, and the constant tossing around of 241 was starting to really grate on my nerves. Perhaps that makes me what one might describe as a hard ass. Then again, perhaps one person’s “hard ass” is another person’s realist.
In any case, I found myself pretty swept up in the interactions as well and constantly jumping on there to see what the latest bit of information or opinion on things was. In retrospect, that’s probably not healthy. Morgan’s initial disappearance which was later followed up by the discovery of her remains was a terrible tragedy sure, but there are other things for the uninvolved to focus on. That’s really the truth of the matter isn’t it? Although many of the forum members would like to consider themselves involved, and with a good heart struggle to get involved through their well wishes and so forth, she wasn’t someone they personally knew.
Maybe some of those thoughts went through Dr. Harrington’s mind when he shut the forum down for a while. I don’t know. It looks to me like it (the forum) is at least for the time being reduced in scope. I didn’t see a general message forum when I glanced at it, or perhaps now that forum is restricted to registered users.
I don’t plan on rejoining the Morgan Harrington forum, I’ve had enough of the (and I’m not going to sugar coat here)… overall sappy atmosphere on that board. I also stumbled on a reference made to that forum that made me chuckle, and I found it rather precise. I think it was on The Hook where I first saw reference to the forum as shrinemorgan.com. That does indeed appear to be where that forum was headed. I sympathsize with the loss absolutely, but I don’t want to interact in an Internet forum which comes across like an unrealistic shrine to Morgan’s memory. I believe that’s just fine with the moderators over there as well, because I’m probably a bit too realistic and rough around the edges… not enough 241 for their tastes.
Bulldog
Beauregard says:
“grounds for a question” I am not sure, this is what either bulldog or I want. Your misconception is that Kenny was responding to me the whole time at “The Hook”. That is the what it appeared to be. But, in fact the people with harshest statements, were not posted by me and I have no surrogates. So, you missed that point, [he thought it was me] perhaps I did not lay it out correctly here. Dr Harrington is fully aware of my concerns and they have not been addressed here, nor would they ever be. He can contact me as J.me does at home. I also apologized to her in person [on the phone] just a few weks ago. Then felt some what used when I saw her posting on Blink in absence of the Find Morgan site. She also did other things that warranted some official intervention. That is personal, does not involve Finding the Truth about the DAYS BEFORE Morgan Harrington went missing and the days of Oct 17, 18 and 19.
The FM site is being monitored, I personally do not need to watch it. I had been banned for some 3 months, life goes on. I can say that I saw nothing productive with facts originating from Find Morgan from May. The exception being Dan confirming facts that I knew for months. Such as the driver of the car [there were 2 different drivers] and the order of the phone calls and texting. There are other facts, that I am sure he is aware that I know. I am sure that he knows. Thus, the reason for the Moderators to represent the Family well and not to get involved in investigating. Because if one opens a can of worms, well…
One final note, J.me and Kenny both posted on “The Hook” with other screen names while accusing me of doing that. I repeat I do not use different names. I find this so ironic. Ms Stuart knows and I trust her 100%.
Sorry bulldog, hope this is OK
SJones,
Yes it’s ok… I just want things to remain civil. As I mentioned in my previous posting its easy to get “worked up” on this mystery. As for the findmorgan.com forum, don’t post there with free speech expectations. I’m personally aware of numerous threads and postings that were yanked, and I’m sure there are many that I’m not aware of. I think that’s part of the frustration some former forum members have expressed by describing the place as shrinemorgan.com I didn’t monitor it after I left, but I’ve been told that it had pretty much deteriorated to a PR venue. A forum where members were allowed to come and sympathize on Morgan’s suffering, but not even hint at poor judgement she may of exercized that evening.
My thoughts, feelings, and insights remain the same.
1. I’ve learned a number of things I’m not going to share here.
2. The image being portrayed of Morgan is unrealistic and not quite on the mark.
3. The Harringtons should of brought in a PI. It was a mistake to rely solely on the resources of LE and… a publicist. Not me? Ok fine, but someone who would exclusively focus on Morgan’s disappearance, and resulting murder. At this point I honestly don’t know that a PI could assist them, as this is definately a cold case. It also has gotten so much attention that getting straight answers out of anyone “in the know” would be quite a trick.
4. Several semi-anonymous posters have placed messages over the months (that were subsequently yanked) on stinky’s… I mean blinky’s website which did not strike me as straight out malicious attacks but as clues that all is not as it seems. They were subsequently removed by the moderators.
5. The $150,000 golden ring reward was a carrot on a stick. It would be unrealistic and close to impossible to make a case that you were the one calling in THE tip that helped crack the case. I certainly hope that callers didn’t think LE was keeping track of who called what. They probably tried at the beginning, but the calls rapidly got out of control. Additionally, LE was getting absolutely bombarded with all sorts of strange sightings and callers. They were dealing with everything from people reading tea-leaves to I saw Morgan Harrington in the Lynchburg McDonalds restroom. Some nuggets of worthwhile information was also called in, but they were intermixed with so much garbage that I’m sure it became quite difficult to find the needles in the growing haystack (or perhaps manure pile).
5. I think it’s time for people’s attention to start to shift to different matters. A “magical phone call” is not going to occur on the tipline at this point. Additionally, the makeshift memorial on the Charlottesville bridge is as I understand it, getting out of control and interfering with pedestrian and motorist traffic.
6. I’m certainly not going to say I’m happy that Morgan is dead, but I think the case in some ways was beneficial. It taught me things regarding high profile cases and what to really expect is going on behind the scenes versus what winds up on Nancy Grace. It also was the first case I’m aware of that hammered the Internet so hard for exposure. Word was spread most certianly, but chaos and to an extent a witch hunt ensued (especially on hinky meter, lets point the finger over here websites).
7. I do hope that the murderer is found and that he recieves a very severe sentence for this brutal crime. I don’t predict that it’s going to happen anytime soon however. The DNA obtained apparently links Morgan’s murder with other assaults and murders in the Fairfax area that occured several years ago. They remain unsolved, so unless LE has some strong information in addition to the DNA I think they’ve kind of hit a wall.
Beauregard & Co.
I do not have any desire to read the Find Morgan rules, so I cannot help you there. There was another Forum set up as temp solution, for the lost souls. On this forum The Forum editor allowed Blink’s words to be printed that were utterly so horrible that I my self wanted to rush to Kenny’s rescue. I mean horrible things. Then these words were repeated. According this gossip I was not even mentioned at all as to threats or even a small reason to have the forum shut down. It may have been me, partly me or somewhere inbetween. But some one post “threats” and the “last straw” then preaches all over the USA about not wanting collateral damage I have a problem with that. Because me and my family are never going to be damaged, by someone’s ineptness to understand there are other victims that deserve respect.
So, there will be no wedge put between me and Kenny. I understand what happened. He is good in my book, hopefully we are all the wiser.
Now your other question, is very simple. Courteney Stuart is aware of who post on her articles. I have everything in its entirety. There just was not the meltdown that people think happened. Kenny and I were being used. That is both of us. He is no more at fault than I am.
Only thing I would like to add is this: I state it as opinion, but is based on 35 plus years of working on homicide and murder cases. When a woman has died and the case is open, anything stated on any blog or any board is subject to review by the FBI, if state-lines are crossed [this is a given with the INTERNET]. Review by Sate and Local Law enforcement. The Hook has its power to do as it sees fit. The one constant presence in this entire case has been Courteney Stuart. Playing games time, well if continues, it will not be me to explain it.
Bulldog expressed a reluctance to go into the subject. I can only answer to what I know happened. All of the gossip and multiple names is just a disservice to a family in morning.
Thanks Bulldog, SJones for your followup to my overly long post. I fear I did not make myself clear at all and it is my fault as it was written over the course of hours and not concise in the least. Bulldog, I think I really get where you’re coming from and have a lot of respect for it. I am entirely sympathetic to your views/reluctance to go further and invest more energy and time in this case where it would appear has gone cold and what seems to remain is mostly sentimental musings and an unrealistic re-writing of MH’s history perhaps. Also think you are right on about how online postings come off w/out the nuances and cues that are so critical to making an assessment. It appears now that every man is a literary critic in a cyber world w/out checks and balances. Add to this, varying degrees of emotional lability and devotional competition–I have a bigger heart than you do, no I care more, etc…and what is left is a bereft morass going nowhere. Because MH is lost w/in it and now it would appear the focus is on protecting the posters/mods/acceptable uses of language and a narrow definition of a young woman who made poor choices and hit a run of unbelievably and tragic bad luck. That said, I have no intentions of joining FM, never did anyway, even though I read the open discussions.
My point about the rules at FM, nos. 6 and 7 were not made by me very well I’m afraid. I am not concerned about the rules as they pertain to posting at FM. But from what I read and discerned, those rules would seem to apply and extend to posting OUTSIDE of FM, such as ones at The Hook or BOC, or here actually. From what I read, all and ANY postings that do not fit in what was prescribed and proscribed actually, will be pursued with ‘strong actions’ and of being heavily ‘scrutinized’. This is really what I would like feedback on; others thoughts and perceptions of what this potentially means. As I’ve said I have no intention of being any part of ShrineMorgan et al, but I am thinking that anything that is posted anywhere else is going to be monitored and evaluated. This gives me pause. Not that necessarily I will not post and speak my truth, but what can these ‘administrators’ whoever they are, do in fact. Can they write to you Bulldog and request personal information on your posters? Can they tell you that things being said about FM posters on your site Bulldog, are out of line and they want it stopped? Same question to those at The Hook et al. It strikes me as intimidation and a bit of Big Brother Mind, and I would wonder why there is a focus on censorship/monitoring in all forums that mention Morgan now as opposed to working on finding Morgan’s killer. More about ‘managing’ a public relation campaign /ideology relative to Morgan as opposed to much of anything else.
Really I am curious as I see this ongoing saga as turning into a few peoples personal ‘stage’ where someone has appointed themselves as the director, producer, screenwriter, casting agent. However to be told-as a member of the Free World-that anything I may say that could be perceived as ‘ hostile and prolonged’, and if I post info on some FM poster ( of which I remain primarily clueless as to who they are) somewhere, without the FM admin’s permission, that I am going to be scrutinized and be possibly a recipient of ‘strong’ action ,bla, bla bla, then I want to know what the hell that means. So I was not asking about myself necessarily and about the FM site specifically. This injunction would seem to apply to all of us anywhere we post our opinions about Morgan, the FM admin, and the FM posters.
Is this clear or what is it that I am not getting across? If someone would let me know, I will attempt to clarify better than I’m trying to do.
And to SJones, thanks for your answers to some of what I mentioned. I must tell you with all due respect, I am not clear at all on what you said, but that’s okay. I do believe we may well be speaking from two very different perspectives which is understandable–as there is no right or wrong in all of this. But thanks anyway for giving me your pov.
Again thanks to all who are trying to understand what I’m awkwardly trying to say. Anything further to clarify what I’m reading would be greatly appreciated.
Beauregard
In response to your questions:
“Can they write to you Bulldog and request personal information on your posters? Can they tell you that things being said about FM posters on your site Bulldog, are out of line and they want it stopped? Same question to those at The Hook et al. ”
They can write to me and request whatever they choose to request. That doesn’t mean I’m going to cooperate with them, or likely would. Now if someone came on my forum and started saying extremely nasty things of a real libel nature about a findmorgan member or administrator, as in unwarranted comments regarding someones race, sexuality, and so forth… or if someone was to vandalize a moderator or forum members car, something along those lines then I likely would voluntarily cooperate. If they were to ask me who so and so was simply because they didn’t like the posting, I’d review the posting personally and unless I saw something really malicious I’d likely tell them to go monitor their own affairs. Blink continually runs around with her hinky meter and slings all sorts of mud in various directions and gets her minions worked up, but I don’t think she often times reveals who those people are. I don’t know for sure, as we are not exactly fond of each other.
As for this blog, I don’t have a hinky meter and don’t want to start pointing fingers at various parties including the deceased Morgan Harrington. I primarily want posters to be a bit more realistic then what I am seeing elsewhere in regards to who Morgan likely truly was and the underlying causes of her demise. I think there was a supposed psychic on a forum somewhere that at one point went into great detail about how he had this vision of Morgan being hacked up in some fashion. I won’t tolerate that sort of posting here. In terms with what I’d do with Mr. psychic’s posting, well first off I’d probably go into PI mode and figure out for myself a great deal about this person… I mean when you have that kind of a post you have to stop and wonder if the individual behind the message was themselves involved in some way.
As moderator of this blog, I guess to an extent I’m responsible for policing it if for no other reasons then for the simple rules of good taste. Discussion of MH’s disappearance, I suppose if the readership wants to dabble with that, it’s acceptable. Expanded visions of what she may of suffered or endured in graphic detail, no I don’t want that here. I may take a look at it as a PI but I’m not going to approve it for public view.
Beauregard
Upon additional reflection of your questions and re-reading your posting let me also say this for the benefit of any findmorgan.com forum members who happen to come over here.
I highly doubt there is any privacy on the findmorgan.com website, including messages exchanged between moderators and forum members via PM’s (if they still alow them). I believe that the moderators and law enforcement at least glance at any and all interaction between members on the forum. It would be best to keep that in mind when your participating in the information exchange over there. Our nation as a whole is changing and what you can or at least should expect in terms of privacy is diminishing… on the findmorgan.com website I suspect you have no privacy whatsoever. Members voluntarily sign up with the forum, and agree to the terms of service. The forum is privately run and privately owned, it’s likely that a legalese statement of “you have no privacy here” is spelled out in the terms of service. I’m not saying this out of malice, I just have reason to believe that what I’m stating is the truth.
Bulldog
Thanks again Bulldog for your explanations and time. And yeah, I too believe you are right about the changing nature of privacy as it relates to our society now. The shifting sands of privacy and freedom of speech are to me anyway, immensely startling. Reminds me of back in the day, seems almost overnight, when a car was stolen and suddenly the focus and the ones responsible were the owners who left the keys in the car and not the car thief. I am dating myself here as this was in the 60’s I think, but even then I remember this shift of awareness gave me pause as I’d been raised to take complete responsibility for my actions and thought there was a clear, clean line between wrong and right. The introduction of the idea that someone could steal my car with the focus on my forgetfulness versus an action that is morally wrong, was the beginning of a paradigm shift that has continued and to my thinking, degraded generations of kids who now don’t know any differently. Now moral relativism and one’s own version of ‘Truth’ is the guiding light and law and where has it gotten us? Very scary.
But as I reread you alls post again, and yours specifically SJones, I realized I don’t have all the info that you do and have been seeing this from a much smaller perspective than you have. You alluded to other forums and things posted that were pretty bad etc…..that I have no knowledge of whatsoever. You seem to have a personal relationship with the Harringtons, Penny and Ms. Stuart so I can only assume SJones, that you speak with an exclusive knowledge and understanding that some of us don’t possess. I respect that and now maybe see that while some of us out here thought you were the major part of the reason FM closed, you were not and that there were things a lot of us weren’t privy to. I was only arguing for you (in post above) because I could not see how the trivial little things I witnessed at The Hook could have had anything significantly concrete enough to shut down a forum. I am only plugged into this case via The Hook, a tad of BOC, and on the outside looking in at the old FM. Recently looked at some older FM cached postings on Google and much of what I read confirm the very reason for not joining this group.
But SJones while I don’t know much about what you posted above and don’t understand it frankly, it has given me a broader idea of the general hysteria going on with this case. Bulldog, you have aptly described parts of the 3 ring circus you have seen unfold in this case and I am beginning to appreciate how out of control it has gotten. Thanks to both of you.
In this light I’m beginning to get a grip on why the FM TOS/rules struck me as so strange and a bit semi-fascist. I’m thinking they are trying to do some collateral damage control of a sort. Apologies for taking up so much space and asking for you all’s efforts in helping me to ‘get’ this. Guess they must try to do something to tone this drama down. My only opinion on this is some of the mods over there perhaps need to take the advice to heart as well.
Bulldog, you strike me as a well rounded thinker both feet firmly, realistically, on the ground and focused on what matters and how to stay on track. I wish there were more people like you posting on the blogs.
One thing if you feel you would or can comment on: did the revelation of Sketch surprise you at all? Do you think he is a primary or secondary perp in all of this? Could you conceive the idea that DNA could have possibly been planted to throw the general public off track? I was so certain in my thinking this was going to be a white person with a typical sociopathic profile. However every day I learn I know very little about anything. Believe you are right that there will be no ‘magical’ phone call for this case, and it’s time to shift the focus. B-b-blink says she is about to reveal, or ‘out’ as I think she said, Mr. Kickee, of that fateful night. I don’t know what more there is about him to know as surely LE must have checked him out completely.
SJones, are you still a PI or detective? Fascinating to learn this about you. Thanks again for everyone’s input.
Beauregard
“Harringtons, Penny and Ms. Stuart” no personal connections.
Journalist, I have many friends. As bulldog states Courteney is a real journalist. Have I contacted her yes. Did we disscuss anything, no. Dan, early on just PM’s. long time ago.
Kenny, I feel like I know him, but no direct contact other than PMs a long time ago and messages via 3rd party. I see Kenny as a very good man. He has family health issues as do I. I suspect we all do.
PI, never thought of it that way. Bulldog has creditials. What I have is: working as employees of Law firms. I am allowed to able to present that I do represent the clients.[Not in this case] I speak with them and they know me and the Attorney’s. Not on this case or my last case. I do not represent them. But, the last case was historical and we got justice. A confiction. See 99% of my cases are as a defense team. I can proudly state that we have had successs in appeals. Getting falsly accused me off of death row. I have been on Death row with several clients. It is a dark place. My first case is often sited in journals. I was but 11 years old. It was in Memphis as a result of the days prior to DR. Martin Luther King’s murder. We did not win in US court, perhaps it sticks with me to this day.That is in record, so it is in the public domain. Do the math, I have been in over 40 states. Over 35 college campuses. So, hope that clears it up. My circle of real friend are about 50 /50. They work in various positions all related to the Justice system or journalist. The other 50 is my passion.
I do not want this to be a expose on me, but I needrd to clear up your questions. Maybe one day Kenny and I will see Memphis beat Virgina Tech in the Sweet sixteen. I would enjoy that. He would too, until the the final buzzer.
“did the revelation of Sketch surprise you at all?”
No not at all. Had that general information. But, I researched quit a bit, based on my sources. Did not surprise me one bit. Cannot discuss anything more. I have disused this with high level Law Enforcement.
I never leaked anything, just in case you are thinking that. I know who did!
SJones, thanks for your input and experience, you sound seasoned, as we all know Bulldog is. Interesting stuff and in particular that you were not surprised by Sketch. Wonder if Bulldog was/is. Heavy metal concert w/a mostly if not all white crowd….connections could be in the music/stage set up etc area, as Bulldog or someone here mentioned before/security/or JPJ staff/drug scene? Then it gets into are there more than 1 perp?
Anyway happened to reread my latest post and saw the first paragraph made no sense whatsover, LOL, hey, it’s Sunday and I’ve got family/friends running in and out. I meant to tie the car theft story more into a diatribe on privacy issues and how they tie into the Harrington saga for me. However my day is running away from me and I’ve got to move on. Be back at some point, again thanks for all the input. More realistic here.
The sketch:
Yes, the sketch caught me off guard. I didn’t anticipate the connection between the Fairfax suspect and MH’s death. For once, Dan Harrington and I are in agreement. I doubt the sketch suspect was alone in Morgan’s murder. I also doubt that Morgan Harrington was present on the farm accidentially. Someone involved was familiar with that location.
Blink and her recent Kickee tirade. Yes, I am aware that she’s warming up the old hinky meter, the minions are growing restless and need a new victim to prey upon. Mr. Kickee has nothing to do with anything in my opinion, other then being mildly assaulted by a Morgan Harrington who in the state police’s words “had been drinking. ” I don’t think the “had been drinking” statement was exactly a major revelation.
Bulldog.
“anticipate the connection”
Well it is a “connection”, that I knew of. The sketch was easily found long ago. It was the description that matched. Remember time has passed. Now, connection is the key word. Does not indicate what some may think.
Well Kickee, come one. Anyone with research can find that. So, it is like a shot at Courteney. One only read of the conflict of a Real Journalist and a Blogger.
What is significant is that Courteney, in a way is like bulldog and I. Her sources are hers. Her ethics are above reproach. Remember she knew of the lacrosse player finding the purse. She held it. I did too! My holding it is because if a source gives you say 5 points and is not yet proved credible, then when 2 of the points become verifiable even by Virgina LE. This allows me to take the other 3 points as verified from one source that is credible. But once the other events took place she [Courteney] was the one to state it, this means she had multiple sources. So, Courteney is not a shock blogger.
She has been constant, for years she exposed highly powerful institutions. What I see is envy from soso. Nothing more!
I see what bulldog stated, a new era. I have stated that the primary historical significance of Morgan Harrington is going to be debate of the INTERNET, PR firms and LE. Some where in this story is the fact that a young woman lost her life.
My dilemma is that the very thing that Find Morgan and soso do, distracts from the importance of what happened and how we as society we can improve.
That, I will leave it to journalist, Legal Scholars and surely some court rulings. I did not attend a University in Virgina. So, Courteney and Bulldog have a distinct advantage on the inner works.
I only know that in most states a lickness with Morgan’s complete apparel and hair style would have been seen on day 2 after the purse was confirmed. At that point it was not a run away. In L.A. or Memphis every one would have had a view, while fresh in their mind. What was lost, well you speculate. See, it would have eliminated tips. Now, why they hold a COD is beyond me. Why the FBI puts out fliers is understood, why they stopped, I do not know. Power struggles, political, PR firms all have hurt justice. Add in the other 38 murders, it begs for an answer!
There is old PR rational, you take the leader and put your self in the same category. If the Leader responds then it raises the level of the lesser. I just not even like to see Courteney’s mentioned in the same sentence as soso.
Hi All, this site of yours Bulldog is full of good info from seemingly sane types with really interesting perspectives and career positions that bring in some new things to look at. This case is stagnant and just about any news on it seems to bring up old garbage to be recycled—-thinking of Wink, wink wink ; ). I think I may sort of feel badly for *Kickee* when those beans spill whenever her highness deems time is right to *gift* us all with this great knowledge of hers. Yawn. Really what else is keeping this case open? Nothing, so this means the powers that be must keep it sensational and in high drama mode to keep the public interest going. Sad really because as people do this who suffers is Morgan. People tire of it all, and of her, get immune to the very real tragedy, the loss, in it all and begin to develop a very high tolerance for sad, ugly rumors and truths, and begin to blur the distinction between the two. Morgan gets talked about as an object rather than a real live girl and in the quest to keep this case prominent, this becomes an accepted practice. Then when others want to interject sympathy they usually get shot down because everyone has been there, done that, and are tired of the emotional ups an downs involved, just wanting to erase the human aspect of this case, this girl and her family, and focus on facts and the mind of a killer. Hard to walk in both pairs of shoes.
I am a sociology major and was struck by your post on this being a first case that has been an Internet phenom, how this case could be pioneering new ways of catching criminals. I think you are right, but there is a real cost to handling cases this way I would think. The forums and blogs go 24/7 and need to be fed constantly to get the hits needed to stay relevant. So the victims almost need to become characters in an unfinished movie or tv drama to allow this to happen.
I have been watching the two camps of Morgan followers: the pragmatists and the emotional sponges. How bitter backbiting gets going and name calling begins because of one’s perceptions of the other. In all of this I feel people get fed up, fed up for caring, fed up because their *tips* and attempts to solve parts of the case rationally aren’t appreciated, and who gets lost is the victim. It gets into ego of the people fighting for her, who makes the most sense, who is right, who cares more, whose kindness is kind, where sympathy is defined by tears and broken hearts versus the types whose ways of being sympathetic are pragmatic and tangible and asserted by fact finding and deductive reasoning. Who is in the inner circle, knows the family or the cops on the case, or other witnesses, all degrading into hanger ons and wanna be detectives on these blogs who will say anything no matter how irresponsible because its cheap and easy and far far removed from the reality and sadness and logic that is truly being done in select places. Like law enforcement and their agencies.
I don’t know, Bulldog, some of what you said on another thread, about how this case will be remembered in history, will not be Morgan but it will be the first internet search for the criminal case, really struck a chord with me——-am taking a class and your points are salient and on the mark. Actually lots of what you say make sense because they are grounded in reality and not how we’d want or like things to be. That is what is not discerned in the cyber realm. So much that goes along with all of this is wasted time and energy, leads or clues made by disreputable types or cynics, jokers…or those who used to watch soap operas all day or shows like Jerry Springer who ‘ve now discovered the internet. So we get dumbed down by a lot of this too.
My general sense is that most people are growing tired of this case and becoming not only cynical but hardened to the violence and wrongness of what occurred, and that it happened to a young reckless-that night anyway, girl who like all young people think they are immortal. That people’s attention will drop when the next young pretty girl or woman goes missing and found tragically dead—and it is/will be a geniune tragedy—and it becomes Nancy Graces’ favorite topic. That’s unfortunately what so much of this is about, because if people truly, really really really and truly cared about the victims of crime and bad things happening to good and innocent people, there wouldn’t be *exclusive* coverage or interest but would be speaking up for all the innocents deaths and laws that do or don’t protect them. I personally find the exclusive coverage of some people, generally young woman and white, such as Morgan and the Holloway girl, as very really sad as it is, to be somewhat disingenuous and transparently empty of true compassion and consideration. It rings hollow in this age of the internet, which one would think wouldn’t discriminate as TV does in its coverage. But the money of these victim’s families is what drives the machine I am seeing and the media is always ready for another good looking victim and life gone wrong, so here we are.
Well thank you for letting me expound on some ideas for my class Bulldog. You have helped me see some things clearer and more realistically. I will close by saying as so many have, that I wished the Harrington’s had hired you. What is needed is a bulldog, a really tenacious and level headed person focused and dedicated and not taking no’s for answers because I suspect that the truth of this case will not be full of love light and peace and prettiness. It will most likely have an ugly side and underbelly, which of course the media loves this as well and will jump on that bandwagon. Very sad as Morgan was a bright smart girl it would appear who had a very real and purposeful future and contributions to make to this world. Sad to me, that her death is why she is known and not her life.
Mary,
Very intelligent and well thought out post. In regards to the media I think you’re right on the mark. The media isn’t looking for answers or even reality, they’re looking to work people into a frenzy and sell advertising or whatever it is that is their underlying motive.
I believe her parents intention was to keep the story in the limelight… they thought it would help encourge witnesses to come forward and provide answers. I would of made an effort to keep it in the public eye, just as they did…. but I also would of been very proactive in finding those answers. I’m not a “sit and let the answers come to me” sort of person. I’m pretty sure I’d of been hitting the streets of Charlottesville personally and asking questions.
Volunteers did have several “find morgan”efforts in Charlottesville, but I think those efforts weren’t really organized effectively. A lot of this transpired quite some time ago, so it’s hard to remember exactly when and how things went down.
It’s been a long trying day in the field, and I don’t want my “realism” to cross over into bitterness and criticism which is a definate possibility at the moment. Perhaps I’ll return to your comment at a later time when I’m more well rested and be a bit more objective. For now, I’ll just say that alot of wisdom was contained in your posting and leave it at that.
Bulldog.
MaryMargaret
I don’t know that I have ever read something so relevant.
This is no way to a response to you, that would be beyond words.
I need to say this, just trust me I need to say it.
An Artist progresses, but an Artist is an Artist, even when the first time the pencil or brush touches her hand.
I believe that Morgan had had a talent. I believe this world has yet again been denied the potential of her works. Her paintings show me something that is so rare on this earth. My passion is art! I see have seen her bedroom walls as have many. I have seen a young woman that does deserve a special acknowledgment. Not for the reasons of her skin color, her youth, her death or gender.
But, because she had a gift.
This goes against all of my statements of facts. This is my opinion. The pedestal, of witch she is placed is not correct, But she does deserve a pedestal, not the one that is made of rocks.. This is me, only. I am color and gender blind. I am even age blind. I do not expect anyone rational other than a lover of art, to comprehend what I am writing. Part of being an artist, is exploring, reaching searching. I see her has not an irresponsible young woman. I see her as an artist, taking chances.
We know this seems hard to comprehend.
We see that the world lost something more than a girl, a young woman a student or even a Sister and Daughter.
The Earth sees the world losing an artist.
Will this be lost, in this perplexing subject. One that I feel is is in good hands with you.
I simply would like to state that truth is beauty. Her art work is the truth that we can view.
I do not in anyway disagree with anything you have stated. I just for some reason need to express this.
Hope you understand. It is so complex?
Bulldog, she exressed better than could ever, the need for you.
I know this isoff of the topix. Please let it stand!
Wheeler, Bulldog:
I was had on topix. Wheeler you warned me, I posted one time you can see my writting. Then you know who poated with my name and, for all I know he is fight with him/self or herself as my name being used. If it is OK with bulldog, I will onlt post here and the Hook. But not for chatter. I feel safe here!
Not that bulldog agrees with me, just I see some form of responcibilty, with the poster and the Bulldog. I 3will post on the Hook, but not as often. I trust Ms SStuart. My only question to all here, is why do people use other names, and many names. I guess I know the answer, but I widh the world was abetter place. What are the youth in for?
Sorry for the mis-spellings, for the first time I am rattled!
I’ll be ok!
I really like this blog! Great.
Of course, the Harrington’s have a right not to hire a private investigator. It’s their lives and their daughter’s life.
The Harringtons have the right to do anything they want. The primary point/arguement being, “gee that publicist approach really accomplished alot didn’t it.” At this point, it’s doubtful that LE will find answers for a long time to come. In truth, I don’t know how much a PI could accomplish for them either at this point. I’m not interested in taking the case any longer and haven’t been for quite sometime. Memories fade, and people go on with their lives. Each month that goes by since the murder makes information harder to obtain. Waving around the $150,000 carrot hasn’t proven particularly fruitful either. It’s unfortunate that by the time families will bring a PI into this kind of situation, it’s generally because they are so desperate for answers that they’re grasping at straws.
Bulldog
We don’t know who bulldogpi is, so can I give “anewdayagain” as my name please?
This site is great. Nice to have an objective place where we can post about the Morgan Dana Harrington crime!
http://www.bulldogpi.net, as well as the “about” information on the blog will give you a “head up” regarding who the bulldog is. A word of caution before hand, I’m not much of a webdesigner. Eventually I’ll have someone professionally rebuild the bulldogpi.net website.
Anewdayagain, it isn’t that I really mind what the Harringtons relating to hiring a PI versus a publicist, except that they are asking for the public’s help in solving their daughter’s murder. They dangle money and ask for help. But aren’t they asking the impossible? They choose to advertise and utilize all manners of public attention getting schemes, and rile the public up, keep Morgan in the news. Then when the nature of the conversations about Morgan get dicey or disrespectful, the group cries foul and complains that the public is not being sympathetic to the Harrington’s misery or behaving nicely.
It is my view that when one opens up a case online, you open a door and what comes through is all kinds. They lose the ability to choose who comes through those doors in a very public and anonymous way, and of course they aren’t going to like everyone’s pov and manner of doing it. I think it creates more distractions away from the issue and from Morgan ultimately.
Parents in similar situations choose privacy in my view, b/c they don’t want those doors opened with every Tom, Dick and Harry walking through with every awful opinion. They are grieving and too many people’s opinions could be devastating. This is what I see anyway.
In choosing a PI the cards are played close to the vest and one is more able to create their own comfort zone. I think the Harringtons have created a spectacle that has placed their daughter in a limelight that is questionable and can be disrespectful at times, but this is only my personal opinion. I’m sure their intent was to do only good and help find the killer. We know nothing about how Morgan really died, or lived, or whether she was raped or murdered, or was injured and wandered into that field. But I know tons of stuff about Gil and the Harrington’s suffering and needs. So I ask whose needs are being really served? All of this is just the way it appears to me now, after seeing months and months go by with no information, no assistance being given. The ‘sketch’ of a suspect to me is a dead end. The public doesn’t know if there is a sociopathic killer loose in the area or a simple abduction. Is there any investigating as to her killer being related to the slew of murders more recently in Va?.
Bulldog is gracious enough to let us post. I feel deeply that he is disgusted.
I would like to interject if I may Bulldog. I do not kiss up to anyone, period! I have research and many years of experience. Bulldog is 100% on target. Unfortunately, that includes his not being directly involved. He is correct, even though I wish it were not the case.
Now I move on, seems to be a fair place, here!
The public may not understand, I hope that no one ever needs to, but, bad things happen. I have investigated countless capitol and perceived to be capitol crimes. I have also been involved with civil litigation. I am not a Lawyer. Private investigators has been constantly used with Law Firms blessings. Other than Elvis, Michael Jackson and other celebrities I have never know a PI that would work under the circumstances that a Publis Relations firm could control his investigation. Hard enough to answer to your client and a Law Firm. I have respect for for PI’s. Strange, you may find that the FBI has much more tolerance than Local Police, my observation only. Bulldog was attacked, I have it, not because I am his friend, but because I have it for a reason.
Turn the page!
Once Gil went on national news and stated that it was suggested that Morgan was dressed provocatively, Bulldogs involvement would have been seen in the public as 100% correct! I feel that Bulldog would have mixed feelings about what I about to mention. Please sir, allow me.
Law Firms do know that PI’s are needed, they can do remarkable things. Sometimes these men and women or team put their life in danger, without a dispatcher to call!
Once Gil uttered those words, this case became national. Dressed provocatively, well that is a civil rights violation in my opinion. If the Police in Virgina, no matter, State, City, County or Campus law enforcement were letting this attitude influence the investigation it is for Federal Courts. The door was open. I know of many law firms that would have taken this case, without $1.00. Then, the PI and the personal attorney become a team. The PI is given latitude, the law firm waits. They do not interject into the PI’s investigation. They wait!
Once the PI says to the client, we have an impasse, perhaps: well you fill in the blanks.
Then the team decides what to do. Can the PI continue, does he or she, need a Team effort to allow for he or she to gather more info. When the time is right, not a Damn public relations move. They go national.
More than any PR firm could do. Remember “New Coke”.
Then, In my opinion you act as if someone has killed your own flesh and blood. You hit with the Justice Department for criminal charges! You sue the Railroad [ responsible for the bridge}. UVA, JPJA and all subcontractors. You go for conflicts of interest. You go after bloogers, the City, the County and the Governor. If it was my Daughter, the last thing my mind would be public relations.
Some one takes my blood, these adversaries bleed green. I go for the green, let them bleed! Then, you can sleep, because so far the public relations factor has not yielded anything, but crackpots!
The pressur not with carrots to a animal, will flush out the truth. The PI can protect with attorneys the privacy of people with information, that are innocent!
Sorry Bulldog,
hope it is on topic
Some one sent me an e-mail:
The short form is this:
If I and Bulldog where in opposition on on a hypothetical case without this seemenly agreement, would I state what I have stated,
The answer is yes!
Justice is that everyone be represented. If he bulldog was gathering information, I would respect it!
I would suggest to the Law Firm not that bulldog was to be attacked in public. We would dissect his information. Then, let the Judge and Jury decide. If Bulldog’s client win, then I would abide by it.
Everyone deserves a fair trial.
At the end of the day, I would shake his hand!
Justice is not for me to decide! What is important is the best of the best represent clients.
I do not know if he throws back a shot of Jack Daniels or not. But I would certainly offer it to him. This is a harsh business. But, bulldog is real! That is enough for me!
Small Chuckle…
S. Jones, Yes I’ve been known to toss back a shot or two of Jack Daniels from time to time. It’s hard to not let the things I see affect me from time to time. I was in court today, and a woman was there confronting her attacker (along with the Commonwealth Attorney). She had very detailed pictures showing the nature of her injuries from the attack. The man in question showed no signs of remorse whatsoever, but acknowledged he was responsible for the injuries.
I couldnt help but wish I had him in a dark alley for a few minutes, see how well he’s able to beat up on someone who can (and will ) punch back.
Bulldog
Sorry, I meant to saay not to be attacked in public. Yes, I and perhaps bulldog are human. I typed the wrong words. I would never be apart of attacking him in public. See, we are human, we make mistakes. But, I own them! I do get emotional, it is is a passion, and I would not give it up for anything on this earth. Bulldog, sorry, I would never be a part of attacking you publicly. In court, the evidence would be fair game, not your character. I am so sorry!
S Jones,
Interesting series of posts. Alot of information and emotion there. Appreciate your kind sentiments. What happened on Topix that apparently I missed? Someone attack you on there?
Bulldog
Bulldog: SJones says he thinks you might be disgusted with us? Any truth to this?
SJones: Man, what’s going on with you? Have seen you over at Topix and The Hook and it looks like something happened with you and Kenny that has got you bent out of shape. Can you fill us in? It seems like you think Kenny is upset with you for something, but from what I’ve seen following you and Kenny, is that he would email you and let ya’ll work it out together, the two of you. He knows you’re a good guy. But man you were burning the wires last night at The Hook. Fill us in please as it is sometimes difficult to know what to say to you. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy your honesty and point of view on things, you have helped me see outside the box at times.
Not sure I’m following your above posts very well. Can you elaborate a bit, so that others can respond better to what you’re saying? Thanks.
Bulldog, really if these postings are getting under your skin, let me know anyway. Don’t want to be horning in here. Thanks.
No, I’m not disgusted with the posts. Alot of good discussion and intelligent thoughts actually have been exchanged. I did note S. Jones sounds a bit more frustrated as of late in his postings (not with me, but with someone). I’ll have to take a look at what’s being said over on “The Hook.”
MacF says:
I will post here only. Kenny and I have been manipulated, in my opinion only. My statement of Bulldog being frustrated was not explained well. It was more directed to him, I think he understands my frustration better than anyone else. I was not trying to imply he was frustrated with the others posting here, sorry. My statements to and about Kenny are genuine. I have seen direct evidence that is only he can understand!
For me to contact Kenny directly, would be misunderstood!
I will state this as fact!
We have evidence of a person or persons putting my name on post that were not mine. In exposing this to the right people all messages and attachments were turned over. That is in it’s entirety. Upon review, in e-mails and PM’s I said somethings about Kenny, if they were due to any influence of others is not an excuse or explanation.
That is why I stated publicly an apology to him. Only him!
I will state this and ask bulldog for a comment. Do not believe the screen names used in e-mails or post!
I feel confident that bulldog if he wishes and with my permission for his information only, verify who I am!
What is lost, is the search for the truth about not only Morgan but other victims. I Will only respond to Bulldog!
Direct questions from him! Bulldog, my e-mail is available to you, you have it! If you ask on this forum I will answer!
What is done is done. What will happen will happen [this is not directed to bulldog]!
Do not take the “lawn sighting” of Morgan seriously. That’s all I can say. The source is not reliable, in my opinion. Disregard it! I have. Do you know how many women at UVa probably look like her? 50?
Sorry anewdayagain, we will have to agree to disagree on that one. The “lawn sighting” is one of the few remaining that I take very seriously… I can’t expand on why that is, but I do. I personally spoke with that source. Although I can understand why some people may become frustrated while speaking to her, I don’t believe she made up her story. Additionally, there are other reasons why I take that sighting seriously. When I had “pushed the Harringtons” to offically bring me on the case, this sighting was the primary reason. There were people on the UVA campus that I wanted to talk to in person, and something else worth looking at that I won’t go into here.
Bulldog, one of your previous posts said:
“A forum member in Baltimore MD pursued the motel sighting up there, and we communicated regarding it.”
I am curious if you would be willing to share your thoughts of this sighting. Do you think there is any possibility that was Morgan? I am working an angle that most would consider outlandish. The answer to this question by somebody with your knowledge of the case may help me decide whether or not to keep pursuing it with the minimal evidence I have. Just as an FYI, I have followed this case closely for personal reasons but I have never posted anywhere before because I don’t want to stir up a hornets nest. There are just so many things that bother me about this case. If you prefer to email me instead of posting the answer here please feel free.
It’s been a long time since all this occured. That being said, my understanding is that the Virginia State police feel pretty confident that Morgan died shortly after her disappearance from the concert. The Baltimore sighting was quite some time after her disappearance, so if VSP is correct regarding the time of death, the Baltimore sighting would have to be a false lead. Good intentioned, but incorrect.
It’s been a long time since all this occured. That being said, my understanding is that the Virginia State police feel pretty confident that Morgan died shortly after her disappearance from the concert. The Baltimore sighting was quite some time after her disappearance, so if VSP is correct regarding the time of death, the Baltimore sighting would have to be incorrect. Good intentioned, but incorrect.
If they do catch the killer, and if it is actually a simple, boring, plain crime, do you think people will let the case end? Or do you think people will refuse to accept the fact that the case is over?
Do you think that people will say, “There had to be more to it than this. There must have been more intrigue than this to such a fascinating case!” 🙂
I suspect that in someways a solution to the crime will be anti-climatic. I also stand by my earlier comment that it’s unlikely it will be solved in the near future.
Bulldog, do you think Morgan died shortly after she was supposedly abducted that Metallica evening? I’m thinking you don’t if you support the ‘lawn’ theory, but want to ask directly. I trust your instincts here on this case b/c you are in the biz and I would think to stay in this business, instincts at times may be all you’ve got. Plus, just guessing, that instincts would get refined over time after placing yourself in these sensitive cases. Seems like a PI would be in between the victim/victim family/support system and the criminal–walking in worlds most of us are blissfully unaware of. It’s got to be strange, but I would also think alot of what you see is more of the way the world really operates than the way many of us think. After all, if one lives a fairly sheltered life, one is living in a cocoon of sorts. I think this way when I ‘get’ that three quarters of the world lives in poverty and hunger. Then I realize how lucky I am even on the worst days.
It doesn’t seem like the man in the sketch is really doing much. I am wary of sketches, but I must say, I was floored when I saw he was a black man. I could have sworn the perp would be white, a white loner, maladjusted, a loner, etc…. Do you think Morgan’s bones could have possibly be broken before she died? I was shocked to read Gil Harrington make this announcement with such authority as I’m not aware the police have ever said such a thing. Is there a real way for a coroner to tell if bones were broken pre-mortem? That is a ghastly thought. I hope not.
Mrs. Harrington has spoken on several occasions in a fairly direct manner about things she seems to believe as fact, such as Morgan being raped, maybe hunted, etc… Do you think the police told her these things and she is sharing them w/us or do you think she is speculating? I ask b/c it would seem if this is true, a fact, then the police need to tell the public this info directly as this would mean a madman is on the loose. Well, anyone who did this is one anyway, but there is I guess, a difference between a sociopathic madman versus someone high on meth or something else. I think anyway. Or a heat of the moment situation. Sometimes I do wonder if Morgan got caught up with the wrong crowd and found herself over her head. She was so young and sheltered it seems. I just wish she’d exhibited more common sense that night-or that her friends had a bs detector that went off and gone to look for her and all stayed together.
What I find glossed over is the fact she was underage drinking, someone gave her this alcohol. Somebody knows more. Underage drinking is a major issue. That George Huguely had an alcohol problem and murdered Yeardley. Morgan was supposedly wandering around drunk and obnoxious, and someone allowed this to happen by getting her alcohol. Why isn’t this spoken about? I mean I know it doesn’t cause someone to kill her, but it surely contributed to her lack of judgment. Also I have heard Morgan wasn’t really in school that semester, do you know if this is true?
Well, thanks for this blog, it is a really good resource, and you are straight with us all here which I totally appreciate. Take it easy Bulldog.
Sometimes instincts are indeed, all you’ve got.
“Seems like a PI would be in between the victim/victim family/support system and the criminal–walking in worlds most of us are blissfully unaware of. It’s got to be strange, but I would also think alot of what you see is more of the way the world really operates than the way many of us think. After all, if one lives a fairly sheltered life, one is living in a cocoon of sorts.”
That is very much on the mark. It is at times, indeed strange… especially when I hear certain sentiments regarding Morgan Harrington, someone the well wishers know very little about.
“Sometimes I do wonder if Morgan got caught up with the wrong crowd and found herself over her head. She was so young and sheltered it seems. I just wish she’d exhibited more common sense that night-or that her friends had a bs detector that went off and gone to look for her and all stayed together.”
Stay off of Blinkoncrime. You have good deductive reasoning, and I’d have to see it dumbed down by too much soggy sentiment. I do sympathsize for the family, but I also like to live in the world of reality.
“Also I have heard Morgan wasn’t really in school that semester, do you know if this is true? ”
No comment.
“What I find glossed over is the fact she was underage drinking, someone gave her this alcohol. Somebody knows more. Underage drinking is a major issue. ”
We could have quite a long conversation about what I have personally witnessed, as well as what has been confided to me by people who reside in Blacksburg. There is quite a bit of truth to that T-Shirt slogan: “Blacksburg, a drinking town with a football problem.” Unfortunately, the town and Virginia Tech remain in reactive (as opposed to proactive) mode in dealing with the issue. The tailgating parties, football program, and related events bring in a tremendous amount of money for both the university and the town.
Criticism regarding the reality of what transpires in Blacksburg (especially during football season) is not welcome, and there is quite a bit that doesn’t reach the ears of the general public. One doesn’t need to take my word for it. Travel through and snoop around a bit on a major game night.
Hi Bulldog and thanks for your response. For being as forthright as you feel you can.
I accept what you say about Blacksburg and alcohol based upon what I have seen on so many other college campuses, plus my own experience in college as well. You are right about how no one seems to even get close to this issue for the right reasons. When the almighty buck is involved, it would appear much of our “collective” morals flies right out the window. My knowledge of campuses is mostly related to the South, but I would think this issue lies in other regions as well. I don’t know though, thinking of U of Maine or U of North Dakota, I don’t think of alcoholic, druggie ‘blow outs’, and/or out of control Greek partying.
I respect that you won’t comment regarding whether or not Morgan was in school that semester, as it seems no one will when asked this question. My thing with this is ‘what’s the big deal’ if she was or wasn’t? Plenty of kids take sabbaticals for all sorts of reasons, if it fact she was not in school. Why the need to hide anything you know? Esp. when the general public has been asked, well, invited in by family and PR to comment and research. Mrs. Harrington in her last entry to the public recently said something about citizen action being required non-stop to find the murderer–someone who threatens the entire community, to make it safer. But that we as a society would rather sit back and lament superficially then “change the remote button” to something more palatable–something to that effect. Well I personally feel I am witnessing a great deal of involved interest in this case, where people are clamoring for more and more info all the time, yet, even small details such as whether Morgan was or was not in school are not answered, and treated as some sort of privileged information. I would say imo people are trying to give it their best effort, but are hitting walls.
This leads me to BOC and the very very little I know about it. Being begged for assistance and then not being told rudimentary pieces of information imo, leads to the ineffective sort of tabloid that allows something like BOC to thrive. Where nothing of substance is discussed, but suggestions and innuendo rule the day-are encouraged and invited, only to be ‘ruled upon and deemed relevant’ by Ms. BOC herself. There is just enough ego stroking and tidbits of acknowledgements thrown out by the queen herself to keep her followers enthralled, even Dr. Harrington comes to post there with some regularity, which gives the appearance of collusion and respect. The last time I was over there the idea of a house fire near Mr. Bass’s farm the day Morgan was found, was being rabidly discussed as being pivotal to Morgan’s disposition. That Morgan had first been there before she ended up in the field. Do you have any comments/theories about this you’d be interested in sharing? Do you feel Morgan was abducted and died the night she disappeared? Or if she was held alive for a while before her death and later placement on the farm? Would love to hear your views on this aspect.
I assume w/out any knowledge whatsoever that you know much more about this case and see many more possibilities relative to what might have happened to her, even theoretically, but out of respect or whatever, cannot or will not say. Whichever, whatever, I do respect this, even if it does give the impression that there could be two–or more possibilities around Morgan’s fate.
Because, say, Morgan was seen on the Lawn with some men much later that night, then the abduction theory wouldn’t fit I suppose. Well, I don’t know anything, but say she was on the Lawn with others she knew, then that places her and her fate in a very different light. And the man in the ‘sketch’ still could have been involved in some form or awful fashion at some point. I wonder if that the last hit by the dogs for Morgan hitch-hiking on that bridge could have been some ‘friends’ picking her up to give her a ride that eventually lead to her being placed near/at the Lawn. Who knows? Surely not me. It just seems that Morgan somehow being around the campus looking for an eventual ride home or waiting for one, and something happening from that point would be as reasonable as the idea of an outright abduction from the bridge or JPJ. After all, this is what she told her friend she was going to do-find a ride home from friends in town. Getting closer to friends or back on campus would make more sense for her to be around those who could potentially get her home versus anyone near JPJ.
Anyway again Bulldog, thanks for being a balanced place to bounce around ideas and thoughts. What a concept: a balanced and reasoned blog!
I wonder if this case will be solved or if there is any promising leads. However, this case is also not more or less important than any other of those sweet kids that were brutally slain so viciously and coldly. I hope for resolution for them all. Plus I would hope equal attention and interest is being put in them as well as Morgan’s more prominently portrayed one. None of these kids deserved this end to life and it is all around tragic. All families deserve resolution.
Thanks again, gotta get to work!!! Darn.
Have you noticed that some of Morgan Dana Harrington’s photos show her looking very thin, yet some show her face looking much heavier?
It could be that some photos are of her when she was as much as 5 years-younger, but still the same height, or maybe she put on as much as 30 pounds in a relatively short period. But the way the photos are all clumped together, there’s no way to tell.
Am I imagining this? Or is this true, and does it show that there is something mentally or physically going on with her that would have caused this weight gain?
I am pretty sure that when Morgan Dana Harrington disappeared, I checked the Virginia Tech website that day, and she was a registered student.
I personally think the Harrington’s should disengage themselves from the Virginia State Police. I think the case is basically over. I don’t think the killer is going to be found. Law enforcement has had it’s chance and it didn’t get the job done. The only way the killer is going to be caught is if he or she confesses. What good did handing out fliers do? So that if people stepped on a body, they’d know to tell the police? Are you kidding me?
Obviously whoever killed her must have a criminal record. How do you get a criminal to talk? You don’t. The killer would have to be arrested for something else, go to jail, and confess to the prison authorities there. I don’t see that happening. This case is over. What good would hiring a private investigator do even?
Hello all:
I was not requested by Bulldog to post. Simple want to clarify a few things. After review, the other:
I.
” Power struggles, political, PR firms all have hurt justice. Add in the other 38 murders, it begs for an answer!” By S Jones
This statement in no way applies to the Virgina Tech mass shooting. It is to other UNSOLVED cases that many have been following in Virgina. I do recall that a few were related in some form to V-Tech, but not directly.
II.
The sketch, I did not have the sketch mounted on my wall, I had information early on that a man of this description has inter-acted with a young lady that matched Morgan’s description. He was in a group of people. Easy to explain some DNA. Now, that does not mean that the person matching the description is sketch. I found this to be very interesting and then searched the whole state going back to the Year 2,000. I read of the 2005 case and many others. So, that is why it was not a surprise. I just want to clear the air. I did not have a direct link to connect the 2 crimes.
III.
General:
I find Bulldogs research methods as so different from mine, that I must say it mind boggling that he has similar experience and thoughts on PR. I never even followed the th V-Tech PR. I was so focused on the UVA and local PR.
But, it all fits, the Universities, Hospitals and related businesses all have one thing in common. Never underestimate pharmaceutical and medically related industries’ power and money!
Finally, I see things deteriorating.
If some one ask for answerers they must give some answers.
If someone would like to question civilized nations, ask? Do we not have law enforcement to do the job. If someone wants to beat the bushes and stir the villagers to chase monsters, are they helping? Hire the professionals or trust the public ones. Take some responsibility and learn to admit mistakes. I do not know what PR Firms sell. But in the USA, I find that when someone admit mistakes, the public will understand and try even harder to help!
To me it is like this: Do you want pity or results?
Thanks Bulldog,
Hope it is on topic
Wow S. Jones, how nice it is to hear from you again. Was not seeing you around and was wondering, not quite worrying—yet, but here you are and I am glad, I’m sure as are others. Hope you’re well and see your post is quite relevant and timely.
I saw Mrs. H’s blog about beating bushes and had the thought that while the sentiment is understandable, we, as groups of people could only do that to a point. Vigilante justice could well arise out of that mentality and indeed, following what you said, that is why we have LE, our justice system, etc…. I am not entirely sure of Mrs. H’s context, and while I’m pretty sure she is writing to get us to think about the nature of violence and women and complacency, I don’t fully agree. I’m more of the mind that what needs to be examined is what follows after a perp is caught. It is not finding the perp in most cases that is the issue in my mind. I’m not sure what Mrs. H. would have “us” do. I agree with you too, that it seems to boil down to pity or results.
The general public has been asked repeatedly to keep this case in the limelight, even above other cases and for the most part, we have. But we are not given anything, not even confirmations about the most basic and early details of that night she disappeared. It is disheartening to say the least. When I read Mrs. H. saying to beat bushes I think, that things must not be going well in this case. Bushes were beat and the only ones left to beat them would be anyone associated with the perp or has any knowledge around that night that has not come forward. Are we supposed to ‘beat the bushes’ at the police department responsible for MH’s case for more info and results? Am I supposed to feel guilty–I don’t know, as I fight in my own ways to make this world safer and saner. Crimes against women and children is so tediously ancient, and from my pov is rooted in unchecked authoritarian world views that have become the so called norm for daily and common behaviors in everyday life and family/social systems. It also makes me wonder if Mrs. H has been beating bushes for other specific women or children? Now or in the past? Because her child is now gone of course this issue is paramount and this new reality for her must be nightmarish. For me, as I can only speak for me, this newfound anger comes late. My family has been the victim as well, of a brutal crime against women, as so many others have too. We know well what she is saying, and the heartbreak. We do and have been living in this reality for lifetimes, and for me personally for most of my life. For me joining a group was of immense help and one can only wonder what mountains Mrs H could move if her feelings were channeled with the help of others. Clearly she is articulate and passionate and righteous—-all attributes of society shifting movements. Simply asking more of the general public, while it does induce sympathy, at this point, not sure it will produce results. If one looks at blogs discussing this case, it is just the rehashing of old facts or sheer speculation of selected people that has the potential to damage those being discussed. Is this bush beating? I am utterly shocked at what I consider to be reckless speculating on certain individuals at particular blogs and over at FM, there isn’t much occurring at all either–the speculation of others seems to be cleaned up. Which leaves us with very little. I know there is FB and other MH blogs, but I can’t stomach them either. Too many pats on the back and making new friends, documenting the details of their life and not Morgan’s.
Jones, I’d love to know more of what you know about Sketch and his possible interaction with MH or her crowd. More and more, as I think on this case, I am left with the behavior of MH’s friends that night. If they are were drinking/drugging–and we know she was drinking, how in the world, could a friend know this and leave her friend in the parking lot saying she’d ‘find’ a ride home? It’s dark, cold and rainy, and MH is alone and maybe wasted and says she’ll figure it out. How does this happen? What goes on in the friend’s mind that thinks this is an okay scenario? When the concert is over and there is no Morgan and no messages, weren’t calls to Morgan made by these friends? Even if so and MH didn’t respond, how does one leave w/out any confirmation that she’s okay? I don’t mean to place more blame on these kids, and I know at that age one thinks they’re invincible, but it would be nice to hear more from their camp on what transpired before during and after that concert. What their thinking was. My wish was that of course they would have called the Harringtons after the concert, and even this probably wouldn’t have helped poor Morgan. There were so many mistakes and misunderstandings that night, it just would be nice to hear from the people w/her. As to the man with this group, there is nothing at all to indicate his thoughts or feelings. Maybe this is what I find bull^^^^^^ about this case, we, the general public who did not know MH and her patterns etc… are asked to beat bushes and yet the friends of MH remain solidly silent and protected. This does not make sense to me. If the bushes are to be beaten, let’s start with the details of that group in the car leaving for C’ville all the way to the next day when the details of where MH’s car was and why she drove and Mr. H, did not think she would be driving. Let’s beat these bushes.
“Jones, I’d love to know more of what you know about Sketch and his possible interaction with MH or her crowd. More and more, as I think on this case, I am left with the behavior of MH’s friends that night. If they are were drinking/drugging–”
Wow Mary Margaret heck of question. You do not ask easy ones do you?
I’ll do my best, but I have to start with something unrelated to sketch to explain why I am careful to release too much, OK?
Courteney had information about the purse. You must think chronologically for this exercise to work. At the time it was a purse only. No abduction, homicide or anything more. That is important, when Hugely did what he did, had Courteney blurted it out, it could have had horrible results. She could have released that day, but she did not.
That is a heck of a Journalist. I know that material needs background and will bore anyone to death with out the history.
I had the information, and other information from the same person. Until Courteney printed that, it was not in my list of facts. Then everything that I was told by that source became as close to fact as possible. Much more reliable than anything Dan or Gil have ever said.
Now, to someone matching the description of the man in the sketch. Keep in mind Courteney and her wisdom. I was written to, e-mailed and had a voice transmission with someone a long time ago. Certain things are facts, others at the time were not put in the list of facts.
But this person described in great detail some events. 3 men, 1 described as Black and 2 white men. Now the strange thing is, they were not at the concert, do not work for UVA or any Band or the Police of any kind. They are not students nor wealthy or poor.
Go figure, so then sketch comes out and VSP releases information. Bingo!
Now I move that info into the fact column, much more than anything Dan or Gil has ever said. Remember that. Do not take anything that Man says as fact! Anything!
So, ironically these men or 2 of the 3 would have access to the general area of the farm and the are around the bridge. But, if the information is correct, there was no murder!
I did give the facts and most information to the FBI, later I spoke to someone in Virgina above the rank of Lieutenant. I was told that my source had [as he or she told me] contacted law enforcement. Now, this person contacted me because he or she felt that his information had been discounted.
Looking back, with sketch. Well we could have used a bulldog.
Now, this information would relieve UVA from any thing other than her not being allowed to re-enter. So it flies in the face of what I would think UVA would do. Seems they would love this possibility, but I believe they are doing the right thing!
Another note, none of these 3 men were C’ville residents! I will say this, if you have a daughter, buy her a new cell phone, with GPS, a Good battery compartment and 3 chargers for Car, home and spare! If your Daughter takes out the batteries to avoid her parents and others, do not blame an entire community for her bad judgment!
The old Norwegian story of the boy crying wolf. Phone gets turned of 1 time, 2 times, 3 times. Well the fourth time would the friends respond to call not answered? No way!
I am tired of the pity train! I wish someone stand up and be a MAN!
If someone wants to write poetry and put it out here, how about telling us about the previous 9 months before October 17th 2009.
Gosh S. Jones, thanks so much for your detailed and informative reply. I really appreciate it and am personally glad you are back in action around here as your absence was felt and missed.
You’ve said so much to ponder and I will, some of it will take some time altho you’ve said several things I’m in complete agreement with. You also confirmed for me something I’ve thought for quite a while, namely, the man in the sketch and the murderer of Morgan are not from here. I’m not even certain at this point that even the location was known prior to the placement. Nothing we’ve been told really has been backed up with anything substantial to support it. The bones Mrs. H said had been broken pre-mortem, the rape, the idea that Morgan died w/in a few hours of her abduction——none of this has to my knowledge been confirmed by LE. Mrs. H. is quite dramatic in her style of speaking and writing—–are we to take her literally?
I find it very odd that the 2 groups of men in the JPJ parking lots that spoke to Morgan have not been questioned more publicly or interviews with them by LE have not been elaborated upon. In other cases most every person that had contact with the victim has been publicly interviewed and is transparent. Not so here. Not the man that drove with Morgan to the concert, not the man Morgan kicked and acted irrationally with, nor the other 2 groups. Why? Can’t they make a statement w/or w/out an attorney as to their conversations and recollections of their time with Morgan? Are they ALL that self absorbed or paranoid about doing this that they would stay silent? If it were my friend I’d be blabbing my head off about the weeks with my friend prior to that night. Who is protecting whom? Why the secrecy and w/holding on the part of the men and LE, and the Harringtons. And of course this leads me to wonder about the group of 3 men you’ve described here—-where, when, how and why they came into play.
Then you drop another bomb Jones-but heck I asked :)….no murder? Did I read this correctly? I would believe almost anything at this point. It could well be that Morgan perhaps overdosed or was slipped something she later died from-I could believe this, and that her body was hidden and later placed, with broken bones occurring from animal activity or an ATV on the snowy hills, etc….
Mrs. H has been blogging almost every other day it seems-more than in the past. IMO she seems still in a form of shock which is understandable. I have difficulty understanding her own personal shock and devastation with fact. She writes with such certainty that Morgan was abducted, raped, and violently murdered–it gives the impression she has additional knowledge that only LE is holding and is sharing it with the general public. The more I read from her, the less I know what to believe. However imo, she wrote a very disturbing blog the other day about not knowing whether or not to go on or continue in live w/out Morgan. My 2 cents for the Harringtons is: you have a beautiful son who needs you, who needs his family albeit smaller and broken now. He needs to hear that you all of course will survive this devastation. I feel terribly for poor Alex, as he is silent and has to be suffering deeply. Please Mrs. H. do not give up or keep putting that sort of detail in public for his sake. Let him know that you all are stronger than the evil that was visited upon your family. Otherwise if you choose not to move back into life, evil wins, and Alex in all his innocence and goodness would lose everything. I have found some of Mrs. H’s sharing so painful as I do not know if she is reaching out for help or what. She seems to want to educate most of us about the nature of evil and how it lives around the corner, that our society is broken in relation to violence against women. But for many of us, we know this. No offense please if anyone who knows the H’s reads this. Many of us work, actively, in areas that are related to this and we beat our own metaphorical “bushes”. Ironically, Mrs H. has done lots of work in Africa where the violence against women and children are generational and legendary, but for her, it seems that her own personal experience with violence is the catalyst for her rants/pleadings. I just wish they’d focus on Alex more. He is the one alive with needs, dreams, and a future–he needs his family and the knowledge that somehow they will survive this. Alex is watching his parents to learn how to navigate the horrendous roadblocks life throws in our way. Please teach him this through your example and strength Harringtons.
Jones, you are right imo about Courtney being a first class reporter. We are lucky to have her here. The Hook has provided some of the best information on this case anywhere to my mind.
What did you mean w/your comment: “do not take anything that Man says as fact” Jones? Were you speaking of Dan? Do you feel the Harringtons are not completely open in some of their knowledge? I agree w/your statement that someone needs to begin to flesh out the months before Morgan’s death, whether it be drugs, certain individuals, habits, men dated, if there were any issues around addiction or treatment for such, some psychic even mentioned she might have been pregnant–this could matter if someone did not want her pregnant etc… This is a bit of talk on the streets around here so who knows? If Morgan had planned to hook up with someone that night, then her past becomes relevant. What does her emails look like, and I’ve not ever heard of kids removing their cell phone battery as a habit for whatever reasons. I hear this is so they cannot be tracked which begs the question if Morgan did this with any frequency, why in the world someone so young would even think like this, who would she not want tracking her? Just so many questions, etc….I am so tired of not being given even rudimentary tips.
Jones you’ve given me alot to think about and I will. Thanks for sharing this even while I don’t fully get pieces of it, I’m hoping w/further thought, something may come together. Do you think the house that burned down the morning Morgan’s body was found is related? Or the men connected with this address perhaps?
I am in full agreement with the pity train——-as we can see it leads nowhere that is productive, in fact it stirs up emotion which exhausts, detracts from the mission of resolution. Facts, logic, reason, and respect, and even gratitude, as Bulldog wrote on the other thread would be appreciated. I would ask that our efforts and time being involved in this case be rewarded with details and clarity.
Alright:
9 months has to do with January of 2009, not a pregnancy, please!
The 3 men I write about are not the basketball players, the men in black [by the way that easily explained]. They were not in the parking area!
Yes, you may believe Dan’s words when you hear them but do not call them facts! He said it, is fact, not the content of what her refers to! He is motivated by a PR machine in my opinion!
The fire, I researched that the week it happened. Nothing!
There was a dog. Dog hairs would be easy to find!
Try to prove murder in court! Sex, please.. a woman alive has a hard time proving no consent. Ever drop a chicken egg on the ground, every insect devourers it! Proving a murder is hard when one is committed. When there is no murder, well ask. Simple question. Every game, every book, every movie what is missing from this case?
A murder weapon!
No search warrants, no metal detectors, no mention at all. Kind of strange. So, was she strangled? what evidence. Lack of oxygen, well, people die all the time choking on their own puke.
As long as Dan wants this to be his PR plan. I will not back down. I can get as graphic as need be.
Fact, murder is real, there is pain. Not meant for a PR game!
Will someone please wake GIL up! Tell her to leave for 10 days with no processed food or drugs or anything or any body! Clean living. Please, she must wake up! Only she can change the direction. She needs to, soon, before 1 year!
Okay Jones, thanks for the follow-up. I am thinking. And thinking and probably mostly over thinking, reading too much between your lines perhaps. Either you are writing with great simplicity like a zen master, or you are writing with loaded meaning in your words and structure. I cannot tell at this point, but I will be meditating on this believe me.
Bulldog, any thoughts? Anyone else have ideas? I like your determination Jones to align yourself with your interpretation of the truths of what you’ve found and know; not get wrapped up in drama, sappy sentimentality, and false friendships that revolve around a dead woman and her grief struck family.
I too hope Gil wakes up. I don’t know about pure foods doing it but whatever. I have to believe she has many friends and family keeping a close eye and supporting her-and Dan and Alex, altho, it all sounds terribly fragile and shaky for them the way she is writing. Dan is a psychiatrist and he’s probably on top of it. Off the top of my head, I’d think a grief support group meeting with others in the same situation would be a good thing. She sounds so alone in her misery, and in reality she is not, there are many understanding and caring people who have been where she is to hold her up and help her thru this period in her life. Are we to think her blogs are cries for some sort of help, or is she philosophically musing about this horrendous event? I cannot tell, but it’s surely bewildering and rather unprecedented. It makes me wonder if she is afraid that if she loses the limelight and publicity she will be alone in her anguish and grief–as if all of this drama–the birthday parties, anniversaries, blogs etc…are some sort of distraction. Distraction, albeit probably very necessary and productive for them. How it will ultimately help find Morgan’s killer is unknown. Oh well, I hope soon the family will heal further and integrate, and feel stronger, better and less alone.
Jones, you never fail to provide. What you provide is usually tricky for me to unravel and discern, yet I always get somewhere in trying to follow you and your thoughts. Can you tell me at all could you kindly, at some point, further provide more details to help flesh out the timeline and characters in question? Nine months prior to her death has me puzzled. I wish you had my personal email or me yours. I have so many things I’d love to share with you about so much of this.
Anyway it is just good to have you back. Were you on vacation? I hope so and having a blast. You clearly have done lots of work on this case and I am grateful for one. For you too Bulldog, for all those who have generously cared and given time and effort for justice for this woman and her family. Bulldog, I do have to really agree with your comments to Brian about the strangeness of some actions–the abruptness and silence, that threw many of us off. Confusing to say the least, even if necessary. I sense a lack of gratitude from some as well, just in general. People are doing the very best they can in keeping interest up in this case, giving valuable time and resources–have risen to the call by the H.’s to keep this case alive. If they weren’t in such deep dark grief, I could interpret some of this as entitlement. However, I won’t go there now, not yet. Maybe increasing the reward monies would give the exterior of this case a boost. That and info, more from all involved directly would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Bulldog again for this great blog and the freedom to discuss this case from many nonpolitically correct angles. This is about the only place that is doing it from what I’ve seen and it speaks to your approach and dedication to justice and truth the way I see it. You are not–at least in how it appears to me, interested in playing nice for nice’s sake, nor invested in protecting fragile egos or the representation of victims that creates a false persona/identity that never maybe existed in the first place. BTW I loved your cruelty is never okay w/animals story, and your honesty in writing to Brian makes you not only credible to my way of thinking, but hopefully helpful to him as well. You make alot of sense alot of the time. And Jones, thanks again.
Mary M.
My e-mail is for those that prove who they are. Not being harsh, just letting you know that they will be vetted. Shared with attorneys and if advised, sent to the FBI.
I do not play games when a MAN says “murder”. Murder invites raw emotion and hate!
As to Gil:
I care very much for her, I am not a Lawyer!
If I could ask for two things it would be that she does find a support group of women only.
I feel that she call a few prominent Attorneys. She needs to look after herself. There are things like statue of limitations, Federal Laws, Virgina codes that she should be aware of. With these things she would be better able to help Alex and herself.
Also, just to mention Morgan’s art and the truth.
See Attorneys will speak to her for no money. Probably no fees other than a sum to secure that payment has been made or a agreement of services.
This case is one for the decades. As Bulldog as stated. I see it as place where test cases should be filled. Challenge Virgina, ask for this new medium to be looked at.
It will come, maybe not from Morgan’s case.
If Gil knew what I knew, she would be appalled at what has been done by some using her daughter’s name. People that she has had contact with.
Things that have been said to me about her family.
Things that these people did, acting together to try to destroy credibility with out concern for innocents. Even so far as to inflict damage. Gil would be floored!
But what Gil should know even more is that these people [ the ones not moderating or owning sites] are the finest people, the ones that thought a Mother was part of Find Morgan. They thought Gil was asking for help, they honor Gil. They do not live in the dark underbelly. Many are local with research that is incredible. This research only needs few facts to be thinned out to a productive end. I wish she would get the support and legal advise. Must be someone to represent her, only.
Morgan is gone, Gil is not! Lets all hope that she survives and helps future families learn. I wish there were more time, perhaps a Virgina Attorney and another with Federal Courts could advise her of time constraints.
There are many things that in my opinion Gil needs to address! I would never do anything but support Gil, I may ask for the poetry to be held back for later printing. I may ask for her to “wake-up”. I ask for her to share about the months prior, not as gossip but because It would help me to focus and confirm or discount what my research tells me.
Gil must be leery of so many frauds and hangers on. That is why again I ask to be vetted! I ask for her to use the legal system. But time is important.
But I found out early on, that Gil is the Mother and the rest of the family does not have her thoughts and pure wishes. I feel that her love is the truest of.
To put a PR firm and a team is not Gil’s thoughts. At least that is my opinion. I am not a Mother, but oh, have I seen what these crimes do. Please do not question what I have seen and held in my arms. Even Gil would understand the horror that she feels has been felt before.
Hopefully we can stop the frequency.
I have seen physics, con men, con women, bible salesmen, hangers on and people that just want to be a part of something bigger. People that want their 15 minutes of fame. People who worship idols. People that go after a REWARD! Black-mailers and extortionist. Just plain sick pieces of crap. People with political futures and motivations. Big businesses and lobbing groups.
Institutions, Law Enforcement agencies and governments all are a concern. Again, she needs a personal Attorney in my opinion. She deed a private investigator, maybe it is not to late. One that answers to her!
Please Gil!
“Sometimes a posting was so syrupy, I would of graciously accepted that shot of Jack Daniels which S. Jones offered me in another thread. I could of used it to clear my throat of all that sticky sweetness.”
Big Chuckle here!
Wow, Bulldog, what a way to handle things. Mary M. tempted me to look at that thread.
Wow, MaryM. great post.
Well, I will be in your area. I will have an Attorneys with me, just because they a woman and a man are life long friends. I plan on some visits, yes I have made some friends. There is even one, that I owe explanations to.
I have to check on the tax code for some special Jack Daniel’s for Bulldog! I would not want to be arrested for being a boot-legger.
For the record there is one moderator at FM that is a fine person. There are many that post that are very good people. One, has a background in the in and outs of Concerts. This person is of the finest caliber. This person, is one of many that no longer post. There are very good people there.
Winky has good people too! I have learned that guilt by association is not valid. Not in homicide investigations nor on web pages.
I see a chance, to pull this one out. That one moderator is always in my mind. She did not sign up for this circus. I owe her big-time. More than Jack Daniels. She will never be a victim, she is special!
Bulldog, thanks!
Hey People:
I go out on boats! The Pacific is beautiful. But The Bay and the Atlantic are always in mind. I grew up with the gulf. So, labor Day. Well A Nurse, like Gil and my Mother!
That is what I honor this weekend!
I wish all a great week!
Gil: thank you!
Mom: I love you!
I do not want this to be syrupy, but I am my Mom’s Son!
I only hope for justice and a place to speak!
Thanks, Bulldog!
I am sure you can relate to Labor Day Week-End!
Heres to you Bulldog!
You deserve the best!
Deemed inappropriate by Bulldog
Thank God for Lawyers!
If you only knew!
“Dan is a psychiatrist and he’s probably on top of it”
Remember this!
“I just wish they’d focus on Alex more. He is the one alive with needs, dreams, and a future–he needs his family and the knowledge that somehow they will survive this. Alex is watching his parents to learn how to navigate the horrendous roadblocks life throws in our way. Please teach him this ”
OH my!
I am big brother. Alex went to school there.
Now, if it were my sister, no mater what Mom and Dad asked, I would tear down every wall!
What is so obvious to me is the refusal to dive in! A PR firm, please!
Alex, be a human!
You know the history! Come on man! Do you approve of your little sister’s name being associated with hate and verbal assaults on minorities. Speak up! Take your Mom and find the truth!
I know what I would do!
Hi Bulldog and Jones and to all else who reads here. Happy Labor Day!
Jones, I have so much to add and ask you seeing your latest posts, but I have a bug of some kind and am sleeping mostly, so I’ll be back when I can stay awake for more than ten minutes.
And Jones, no you weren’t being harsh at all about your email. I was saying that b/c I would like to pick your brain, not being happy with just what you write, as for me you bring up more questions than answer them. A good thing usually. But you would be horribly foolish to give it out anymore than I would be for doing the same. Everyone should be vetted esp. w/a case like this. Do you think the killer reads these blogs?
Okay time to go back to bed. Thanks for the info though and Bulldog, you providing this space of reason.
Malcolm Payne, 51, I am White he black! He stuttered and did not speak! My father and I walked to Lizzie’s home! I was I think 10! Malcolm maybe a year older. For 40 years I look back, Only recently did I understand his brother was only 16! Malcolm saw, heard and smelled the Sawed of Shot gun blast that killed his brother. He was about 10 years old. Two kids, me and him. He for some reason spoke to me, to this day I never no why. But then, he walked int the living room. My Dad and his Mother were just amazed. He told the story to them.
Latter as me and Dad walked down the street, My Dad asked, do you know what you just did? I smiled and said yes, I met a friend! Till this day, when I watch “To Kill a Mockingbird” I always thought that movie was about my Dad!
So, here is the link, what does this have to do with Morgan?
Everything! Everything on this Earth! The Truth sucks! But the truth, I can live with.
PR firms and sick Men! Oh, I must count to 1968.
Calm. But this is the real shit, I am real!
Hit the link
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/mar/28/mother-grieves-sons-death/
With God as my wittiness I will never stop! Ever!
Deemed inappropriate by Bulldog
“Do you think the killer reads these blogs?”
I think it is someone so close, that , well…………………………………..
Thattis possible that killer may need some outlet.
With enough money, maybe he could hire………………………….
Deemed inappropriate by Bulldog!
Note: unnecessarily long and off topic probably and boring. Read at your own risk, and no you will not get your 5 minutes of your life back so I’m just warning those who value their time………:).
Up again, and bleary at best…Jones, you remind me so much of a Faulkner or Flannery O’Connor character, two of my favorite authors. You write in such nonconceptual ways-which I do believe throws many of us off. I have to plug into my other hemisphere sometimes reading you and use my imagination-a good thing. I will be the first to admit that I find at times your thinking is all over the place, although your heart is always in its proper place beating strongly. And I don’t ‘get’ half, at least half of what you write, yet some of what you do write is compelling enough for me to try hard. I feel you are in a direction that most are not in regards to this case, and in my mind, this is the sort of thinking that will be needed to solve this case ultimately. If it ever is solved…..
When the picture of Sketch came out is when this case turned imo. I think it is fair to say that the majority of us initially felt the perp was white and fit a particular profile. So Sketch undid this for alot of us and threw some of us back and off track. It may have subconsciously or consciously, introduced race and the memories of the old South racist refrain of the ‘bad’ black man lusting after the ‘golden’ girl–that evil myth, and threatens potentially to conjure up anger–in a smoke and mirrors sort of way. I don’t mean to be or to sound offensive, am just stating what I recall from growing up in the deep south and observing as you too did Jones; some of that obscene, vulgar uncalled for, immoral evil-racist behavior. So I wonder at times in my paranoid moments, could Sketch be a scapegoat, could he have been set up either by others—involved peripherally around Morgan’s death-as an accomplice, or could he be set up as a device by crooked cops? No offense please to anyone here. However I am enough of a realist to know that every area and career, etc…has its bad apples. Mostly I do believe LE is above board, mostly consisting of good and decent, honest people. Still, I wonder about there being an intuitive disconnect in this case on so many levels that it seems it might add up to reveal one day, some form of abuse of power somewhere, somehow. The silence is deafening–from the PR people, if they are in fact, still in play, to the Harringtons–aside from Gil’s blog-as she is writing mostly it seems for herself and not to solving the case, to LE, UVA, JPJ, the so called ‘friends’ with her that night, all the way to the many people that were bound to have known her throughout her life-old boyfriends, teachers, mentors, aunts, uncles, Alex, cousins. Where the heck is everybody?!!!!! Has someone ordered secrecy or is it voluntary and collaborative? Just strikes me as so uniformly colluded.
More and more I see people asking for more info to be provided at least on the day in question, as you stated in an above post Jones. I’ve read several statements to this effect. I think patience is wavering and a new level of frustration is rising. It will be 11 months soon, a year and we know barely more than we did way back. Except for Sketch. To throw Sketch into the fray w/out commentary is more than annoying, it is provocative imo. A five year old sketch of a middle aged man means virtually nothing, but in some people’s minds and comments-such as Hink’s, several black mens names are thrown around it would appear-in innocuous ways, with caveats–so the writers claim, but it is scary to say the least and makes me glad I am not a black man in the area these days that even comes a bit close to ‘Sketch’.
Has a COD ever been released? Have drugs screens on Morgan’s remains been done? I wonder about date rape drugs in her system, along with recreational. If indeed there were drugs found, then someone gave/got her these drugs. Who? I have seen this question asked in the ShrineMorgan types of places only to be shot down angrily that even if she was on drugs, that didn’t cause someone to kill her. Well yes I know this as do the people asking the question. What seems to go over the naysayers heads is that some of us look at patterns. Patterns of behaviors, friends, preferences in men, types of relationships, particular characteristics. I was rereading an article on Morgan’s funeral in the Hook? well, not sure, but I was jolted by reading that at the service, the church I think, some of Morgan’s ‘things’ were on display. Stiletto heels and a red sequined dress, makeup, a blow dryer? I don’t know how I missed this earlier. Can this be true? I was in a bit of shock as I read this. Are we to believe this represents this young woman? How she is being portrayed at her death? That it speaks to who she was, that it describes her soul or the truest part of her? I find it offensive personally and perhaps I have this wrong or am seeing it too narrowly. Does it strike anyone else as odd? And please if anyone knows differently enlighten me–please. I find this to be another disconnect for me in this case full of disconnects.
Anyway, I am trying to make the point–and doing it so poorly, that w/out more info on who Morgan was-beyond the surface, may hold some clues as to who would have been either drawn or attracted to her–and I don’t mean this in a sexual way at all. For example, I have a terrible/wonderful (to me) trait/behavior/tendency to speak to anyone anywhere w/out fear or caution at times. This could be my undoing one day. But so far this trait has served me, enlarged my life. I could go on but I think I’ve made the point. How did Morgan behave in general? Had she just broken up with a guy? Was she dating? Was she flirty, sensitive, intellectual, charming, talkative, etc…. What types of people, men did she typically attract? Was she acting consistently that night to her friends’ best judgment? We won’t/don’t know b/c they are silent. And protecting whom? I don’t care about the reputations of young adults that were out with a woman that died that same night. Don’t some things supercede others? Don’t some things just matter more? Stuff like that bs, that in the car that day, driving to C’ville, that she was in the backseat studying does nothing to advance anything. Who believes this? What possible purpose would there be to put a story like this one out there? She was going to a heavy metal concert that she was excited to see for six months for crying out loud! Don’t insult our intelligence please! So much that we DO know is not believable. And yet we’re asked to do more-with what? The people who have asked us to help keep this case active have not done their part, have not provided intelligent info. Why? Does it border on dishonesty? Or is it simply ignorance?
I think I took too much flu medicine/antihistimines–they make me hyper-sorry.
So Jones, I read your story with great interest and fondness. A beautiful story, thank you. I can see how your Dad would be Mr. Finch to you. He was in his own way! The article is heartbreaking and my heart bleeds for this boy’s mother. The insults to this family are many and so devastating. This poor family is still in shock. Look at the contrasts in this story and the Harringtons. One poor as dirt, the other affluent, but both equal in their pain. Both mothers in awful grief and with different resources. This young boy was as murdered and as innocent as Morgan. We just know the young boy’s murderer and still there was NO justice. To say that evidence is thrown into the river is so absurd it doesn’t deserve comment. An INSULT. Insults every law abiding citizen, every good cop, every potential case. But I lived too, in the South and have seen with my own eyes some things that make one want to pretend could never ever happen they are so evil and shameful. Life is generously unfair and does not discriminate, and not one of us escapes unfairness in our own ways. It is a great leveler.
When I read Gil speaking of beating bushes and grasses to drive out evil, I wonder which particular field is she speaking of? I have beat grasses in many areas-to assist in removing the ‘isms’ from our society, to fighting poverty, reducing hunger, to assist in helping to alleviate others personal sufferings. I have made a career of it. Bulldog has as well clearly. I think most good and decent people who decide every moment of every day to choose goodness and transparency over lies and darkness are beating grasses. It must sound like it isn’t enough, but it holds us together as a society and it builds goodness. It is a place to continue to begin every day. I have never ever looked at victims of crimes as just another pretty body to step over or whatever she said in her last blog. It has never been routine or alright for me or most anyone I know to be that either self absorbed or coldly indifferent. It sort of stings that she writes this as I have to believe that most everyone following her and this case are deeply compassionate and caring people who are fed up with random senseless violence. Sometimes I do not know who her audience is or who she thinks we are. But I do sense her aloneness, beyond her obvious pain, and it must be beyond the beyond. However I’ll add to Jones’ saying this too, hopefully she could join a survivor group-or start one. She’d, I believe would receive some of the validation and warmth that I see maybe she’s yearning for. Don’t know what she wants, but movement outwards toward others in a similar place may offer her a spiritual depth that she perhaps cannot receive via comments from blogs.
I had to chuckle at your comment Jones, about Dan being on top of things. For I see this too as another multilayered aspect of this crazy case. When did you become so angry with Dan? It seems to be more recent, and perhaps well warranted Jones, as you seem more plugged into this case/connections than surely I am. Why should Gil get her own lawyer I wonder-over your suggestion that she do so? You always make me think Jones, this is for sure.
The link to the Memphis story makes me ashamed to be from the South Jones. Sometimes I feel this way. That story is shameful and intellectually I know that hatred and ignorance is disguised in many forms, but being from the South, the stories racism are so painful and run so deep. I too as a little girl was quite close with several black women, one of which raised me and is solely responsible for my sanity really. Anyway I was connected very deeply and intimately with these woman and saw first hand many inexcusable and unspeakable acts/behaviors done to those close to them. I did not know how to articulate the language needed to convey to them how profoundly gutwrenching it was to me, b/c of my age mostly. I hope now that they are gone, they can peer into my heart and see how much it hurt me, how much they mattered to me, how wrong it all was, and mostly my inability to know how to make it go away or make it better. Because of some of these experiences, I originally went to school to know how to “beat the grasses” in my chosen career. You are beating bushes Jones, clearly Bulldog is–look how he is manifesting it here. So many of us are. We are not passive and uncaring and if it would appear this way to Gil, then it is b/c she is only seeing a particular yard of grass now.
This is terribly long. I need to put a disclaimer on it. Am so tired yet my fingers are not obviously. Thanks to whomever bothers with this.
Deemed inappropriate and removed by Bulldog
Deemed inappropriate and removed by Bulldog
Well thought I’d go back to bed and rest, but no, read your last 4 posts Twain Jones. While I wrote an obscenely stupid post going nowhere, I read yours and the top of my head is about to fly off!!!
Are you suggesting Jones what I think you are? No way if we are thinking on the same lines. No f^**** way. Just can’t go there altho what the ^^^^ do I know? Not much even if I use tons of words. Sorry about my lengthy chapter above to those who read it or care.
Jones, Gil IS FM or is at least so strongly affiliated as to be inseparable imo. She’s right there in the mix it would appear. Why do you think she’s being duped? You know I have thought maybe initially of what you may be suggesting but it doesn’t fit for me. Yet. What sort of research are you doing? It certainly sounds potent to say the least. I have noticed that you were silent for a week, then have returned with a new stronger attitude and voice-even with righteous anger, which I love-righteous anger that is. Okay I’m shutting up but intrigued to say the least and I support you in your seeking the truth and standing by it. I’m just not getting this Gil/Dan division and you wanting Gil to get her own counsel.
Also yes Kenny the Pet. Is J’me speaking of Gil’s sister? Not clear but thanks in advance. MM
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Mary Margaret says
So you want sleep, me too! you are not alone!
Ask the exact question, I will answer!
From October 20th of 2009, I have had contact with real people. There was no body found, no need to plant at-shirt, why would anyone do that that was a criminal? No body, no chrime, why plant anything. So damn simple, Why do I waste the time, Honestly Mary marget are you just taoughting me. What is your motivation/ I want facts! (edited by Bulldog) I want Dan to explain why he treated he like an Irish Sitter. her girl,, her girll wewe wew wew!
This (edited by Bulldog) treated morgan like a pet, do good, here are the tickets. So you think, I could dream this up/ No I have 7 people maybe 12. Dan needs PR machine, simple, ask why?
Please (edited by Bulldog) Dan! Please fill a suite. Please allow me to open all things in Discovery!
Well here it is, your PR machine and one man!
Want to gamble, try me!
I will inlist Bulldog, if attacked! I will fight for something you become aware of 11 months ago!
I have walked the walk for 40 years, sorry (edited by Bulldog) Danny come lately.
Mary Margaret says:
Fraud!
Personal note. I do not like M&Ms never did. I never worried about it. You know M&Ms. So some disturbed person posted a question some where? Not sure where? So I would never give a sexual predator M%Ms Marry Margr—
But, usually my actions lead to a safe lading for things that melt in the mouth?
Not sure a Virgina Woman can Handle a Tennessee man. We volunteer!
But quite simple, I have an Attorney, call him!
Stop playing games!
Ok, I’m not exactly sure I understand the conversation taking place here between Mary Margaret and S. Jones, but I think the time has come to put the brakes on.
1. S.Jones, I know you are very interested in the MH case but some of your postings don’t make a lot of sense to me. I also am going to have to ask you to watch the language on the blog…
2. Both of you need to remember that the whole Morgan Harrington case is highly emotionally charged and it’s easy to get swept up in it. I don’t want the same sorts of arguing that temporarily took down findmorgan.com to spill over here.
3. S. Jones, what is your frustration with Dan Harrington and challenge for him to sue you about? I’m not generally impressed by the approaches the findmorgan.com website (presumably under Mr. Harrington’s control) has taken regarding the case. I do however respect that Dan Harrington grieves from the loss of his daughter, Morgan. Attacking Mr. Harrington with vulgarities is inappropriate, disrespectful and not condoned on this blog.
Bulldog:
“vulgarities is inappropriate, disrespectful”
Well, I will take my punishment! Perhaps the language is too harsh, from me? I know that you do not read Blinkoncrime, I rarely do. But racist statements. Invoke me to stand!
Morgan’s Father aligns himself with Blinkoncrime.
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/mar/28/mother-grieves-sons-death/
Walk in my shoes, dare have dreams of Lizzy’s life. You now see the true underbelly.
A PR firm OK’s the Father to invoke emotion? Well, they got heir desired outcome. To distract at any cost from the truth!
One last time, I ask you to read the link, I ask for you to search for something that is so raw and honest. I ask for you to see what others choose not to!
So, either way.
I have never asked you bulldog to understand. But this time, If I may, please read the link I provided earlier. Please look inside of the underbelly. Please Judge me with, at least some compassion. Because I am worth it! Every human is worth it!
Mary Margaret says: This is not the first time, I am sure it will not be the Last.
I am truly sorry! I lashed out! Not right, no excuse no explanation.
I read and read again. We from Memphis, well they call it the Blues. But it, words and Blues are not as random as one may think. We do look and revisit. We do re-read! We do try!
So Mary Margaret, here it is. In print! I am very sorry! You deserve better.
Mary Margaret
My Dad is still alive, we speak so often that is the best of the best. Mom, last night on the boat maybe 3 hours. They are together and living. Irvin as his name reads is Irving to me! He is alive, health concerns and many nights for me soul searching. It may consume his body, at least he has Vanderbilt’s Doctors.
My Mom she says go for it! She says reach for Gil!
Dad, Irvin much more mater of fact.
It all relates, all of it. Morgan is worth it. I think she was an artist. Still lives in a form beyond religion, much like living through her works. Kenny, yes I think I understand. He is a good man.
I do not know what to do, I only know that to do nothing. Well, I don’t need Mom or Dad for that one. To ignore Morgan, to forget the past.? My DNA will allow that! SO, I stumble, so I put myself in situations. I open my self to random people. I try not to judge, I want to see the good in people. I will take a ride, I will try.
Sound familiar?
That is truly my life, but Morgan, seems very close to me right now. Not like a ghost or someone calling for help. Just a kindred soul, not lost. An artist, with a family.
Ther is another death, so, emotions of a female, with bones found stikes at my soul. But is not becouse the were women, young, black or white. Every person has a Mother! It is the mothers that motivates me!
Thanks Matrice! I needed THAT!